1 00:00:12,870 --> 00:00:11,190 what's up everybody for some reason 2 00:00:14,709 --> 00:00:12,880 if you're trying to get me on twitter it 3 00:00:17,750 --> 00:00:14,719 ain't working 4 00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:17,760 um so that's just the deal oh maybe it's 5 00:00:22,550 --> 00:00:20,160 working now i don't know weird internet 6 00:00:27,589 --> 00:00:24,790 um 7 00:00:31,589 --> 00:00:27,599 it's good to good to see you guys though 8 00:00:33,110 --> 00:00:31,599 just wanted to read the forward 9 00:00:35,990 --> 00:00:33,120 to 10 00:00:38,950 --> 00:00:36,000 mr graham's book 11 00:00:43,510 --> 00:00:41,350 the forward is 12 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:43,520 as such 13 00:00:47,750 --> 00:00:45,680 it's written by sean cahill 14 00:00:49,670 --> 00:00:47,760 during world war ii a strange phenomenon 15 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:49,680 known as the foo fighters was witnessed 16 00:00:52,950 --> 00:00:51,760 by u.s army air force night fighter 17 00:00:56,150 --> 00:00:52,960 crews 18 00:00:57,910 --> 00:00:56,160 operating over western germany 19 00:01:00,470 --> 00:00:57,920 mysterious lights were frequently 20 00:01:04,710 --> 00:01:03,029 uh following 21 00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:04,720 their aircraft 22 00:01:08,390 --> 00:01:06,880 or sitting off their wing tips the 23 00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:08,400 lights did not appear to show any 24 00:01:13,190 --> 00:01:10,799 hostile intent for many years it has 25 00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:13,200 been believed that the wartime sightings 26 00:01:18,390 --> 00:01:15,920 started in 1944 27 00:01:20,789 --> 00:01:18,400 however this is simply 28 00:01:23,030 --> 00:01:20,799 accepted wisdom based on a false premise 29 00:01:25,429 --> 00:01:23,040 published in december 1945 and then 30 00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:25,439 repeated in various ufo books since the 31 00:01:29,830 --> 00:01:27,920 1950s 32 00:01:33,190 --> 00:01:29,840 the true story of the foo fighters goes 33 00:01:36,149 --> 00:01:33,200 back much earlier than 44 involving raf 34 00:01:38,149 --> 00:01:36,159 aircrew operating over germany and italy 35 00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:38,159 the nicknames for what they encountered 36 00:01:43,109 --> 00:01:39,680 were different but the phenomenon they 37 00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:43,119 witnessed was almost certainly the same 38 00:01:47,190 --> 00:01:45,280 mysterious lights rockets and jets were 39 00:01:49,030 --> 00:01:47,200 reported on a regular basis and many of 40 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:49,040 these events are listed in the official 41 00:01:53,350 --> 00:01:50,320 records 42 00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:53,360 these cases plus others which may not 43 00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:54,880 have been reported to the military 44 00:01:59,670 --> 00:01:57,520 authorities at the time are examined in 45 00:02:01,910 --> 00:01:59,680 this book 46 00:02:03,749 --> 00:02:01,920 various explanations have been suggested 47 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:03,759 to explain the foo fighters and these 48 00:02:08,949 --> 00:02:06,000 are looked at closely 49 00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:08,959 in the 1950s several german designers 50 00:02:12,229 --> 00:02:10,399 came forward to claim 51 00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:12,239 that they had been personally involved 52 00:02:16,869 --> 00:02:14,560 with secret nazi projects that they were 53 00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:16,879 the source of wartime sightings 54 00:02:20,150 --> 00:02:19,040 their claims will also be studied in 55 00:02:22,869 --> 00:02:20,160 depth 56 00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:22,879 the foo fighters are a largely forgotten 57 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:25,280 aspect of the ufo subject in the 20th 58 00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:27,840 century and this book is intended to 59 00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:29,680 address 60 00:02:35,170 --> 00:02:31,760 that lack 61 00:02:57,830 --> 00:02:43,780 [Applause] 62 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,120 west 63 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:06,650 [Applause] 64 00:03:24,309 --> 00:03:22,720 [Music] 65 00:03:26,309 --> 00:03:24,319 so that part actually wasn't written by 66 00:03:28,390 --> 00:03:26,319 sean cahill but it was a good part that 67 00:03:30,390 --> 00:03:28,400 i wanted to read because it really gives 68 00:03:31,670 --> 00:03:30,400 you the gist of 69 00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:31,680 the book 70 00:03:35,350 --> 00:03:33,040 and what's it about 71 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:35,360 and what it is about so without further 72 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:39,200 ado i will bring on 73 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:41,440 the man the myth the legend 74 00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:44,720 the guy who wrote a 50-pound book 75 00:03:48,390 --> 00:03:46,959 mr graham randell how are you 76 00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:48,400 fine thanks sean 77 00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:50,480 fifty pounds in weight hopefully not not 78 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:53,200 pounding in sterling it doesn't cost 79 00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:54,720 that much 80 00:03:57,830 --> 00:03:56,080 but you could use it at the door stop 81 00:03:59,830 --> 00:03:57,840 couldn't you 82 00:04:00,860 --> 00:03:59,840 yeah well i wouldn't do that that would 83 00:04:02,550 --> 00:04:00,870 be terrible but 84 00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:02,560 [Laughter] 85 00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:04,879 but there it is i'm so proud of you i 86 00:04:08,789 --> 00:04:06,560 wanted to say first of all 87 00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:08,799 like you are such a good person and i 88 00:04:11,429 --> 00:04:10,400 know how hard you've been working on 89 00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:11,439 this 90 00:04:14,710 --> 00:04:13,040 um and 91 00:04:16,629 --> 00:04:14,720 it's just you know a lot of people have 92 00:04:19,349 --> 00:04:16,639 a hard time seeing things through 93 00:04:21,590 --> 00:04:19,359 especially of this size and stature 94 00:04:23,189 --> 00:04:21,600 um so i just wanted to give you props 95 00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:23,199 for doing that 96 00:04:25,909 --> 00:04:24,400 um 97 00:04:28,629 --> 00:04:25,919 and yeah you're an amazing dude so 98 00:04:30,469 --> 00:04:28,639 congratulations man oh thank you sean it 99 00:04:32,150 --> 00:04:30,479 means a lot coming from you um 100 00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:32,160 you know because you you're an artist 101 00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:34,080 yourself you're a musician you know you 102 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:36,800 you've been in that game a long time and 103 00:04:40,469 --> 00:04:38,800 you will have had like times when you've 104 00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:40,479 stumbled over trying to get songs 105 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:42,720 written and and go to gigs and the 106 00:04:48,390 --> 00:04:44,960 motivation so i know you understand 107 00:04:50,150 --> 00:04:48,400 exactly what it's all about um it did it 108 00:04:52,469 --> 00:04:50,160 did take a while for the book to come 109 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:52,479 about um there were times when i 110 00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:54,000 wondered what i was doing and whether 111 00:04:57,749 --> 00:04:56,080 there was going to be an audience for it 112 00:04:59,670 --> 00:04:57,759 uh but thankfully you know all those 113 00:05:01,749 --> 00:04:59,680 things have come to pass and um uh yeah 114 00:05:05,029 --> 00:05:01,759 i'm here talking to you today 115 00:05:07,029 --> 00:05:05,039 yeah i'm glad you are man um 116 00:05:09,510 --> 00:05:07,039 well first of all 117 00:05:13,029 --> 00:05:09,520 you know there's so many topics 118 00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:13,039 within the ufo community you know so 119 00:05:17,749 --> 00:05:15,600 many places to go so many cases 120 00:05:19,990 --> 00:05:17,759 so many points to be made 121 00:05:21,909 --> 00:05:20,000 uh what made you 122 00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:21,919 why did you pick this one 123 00:05:26,710 --> 00:05:24,160 so i've got a long standing interest in 124 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:26,720 an aircraft of my first book was about 125 00:05:30,790 --> 00:05:29,440 me traveling around siberia um in june 126 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:30,800 1992 127 00:05:34,150 --> 00:05:32,000 six months after the fall of soviet 128 00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:34,160 union i used to go around photographing 129 00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:36,160 airplane interesting airplanes i've been 130 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:38,240 interested in aviation since i was a kid 131 00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:40,000 you know four or five years old i used 132 00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:42,320 to build model kits and then i got into 133 00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:44,160 like you know reading about aircraft 134 00:05:47,830 --> 00:05:45,600 from world war ii and then i got 135 00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:47,840 interested in world war ii as just as a 136 00:05:52,629 --> 00:05:50,960 subject so you've got those two those 137 00:05:54,629 --> 00:05:52,639 things are there but also i was 138 00:05:57,749 --> 00:05:54,639 interested in in german secret weapons 139 00:05:59,029 --> 00:05:57,759 as well through all that um the the jet 140 00:06:01,110 --> 00:05:59,039 aircraft that they were coming up with 141 00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:01,120 the rocket-powered aircraft the missiles 142 00:06:05,029 --> 00:06:03,440 um the strange uh other weapons that 143 00:06:07,670 --> 00:06:05,039 they had that never really went into 144 00:06:09,029 --> 00:06:07,680 service so again that's another kind of 145 00:06:10,469 --> 00:06:09,039 strand that's always gone through my 146 00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:10,479 life you know things when i've had a 147 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:12,240 spare five minutes or there's a new book 148 00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:13,840 come out in the subject i've got a hold 149 00:06:17,189 --> 00:06:16,080 of it but of course ufos have been you 150 00:06:18,629 --> 00:06:17,199 know um 151 00:06:20,309 --> 00:06:18,639 you know intertwined with all that 152 00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:20,319 because i've been interested in those 153 00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:22,160 since about you know um eight or nine 154 00:06:27,189 --> 00:06:24,880 years old as well so the three things 155 00:06:29,270 --> 00:06:27,199 came together in this 156 00:06:31,110 --> 00:06:29,280 and it's not often you can do that i 157 00:06:34,390 --> 00:06:31,120 mean people do as you say people do 158 00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:34,400 write you know about other subjects 159 00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:36,319 in ufology and they might write about i 160 00:06:40,469 --> 00:06:38,240 don't know about um 161 00:06:42,469 --> 00:06:40,479 the the hasselton lights or they might 162 00:06:44,150 --> 00:06:42,479 write about roswell or they might write 163 00:06:46,629 --> 00:06:44,160 about something socorro or something 164 00:06:48,950 --> 00:06:46,639 else but it's probably quite rare that 165 00:06:51,350 --> 00:06:48,960 people's interests you know in terms of 166 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:51,360 what they what they sort of know about 167 00:06:55,990 --> 00:06:53,120 or what they're interested in outside 168 00:06:57,589 --> 00:06:56,000 ufology sort of clash this way 169 00:06:59,589 --> 00:06:57,599 i know somebody wrote a book about rock 170 00:07:01,670 --> 00:06:59,599 and roll and ufos i think it was mike 171 00:07:03,510 --> 00:07:01,680 diamont i can't remember his surname um 172 00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:03,520 there was a book called that so clearly 173 00:07:07,029 --> 00:07:05,520 he had an interest in that 174 00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:07,039 um but 175 00:07:10,469 --> 00:07:09,120 this was my kind of you know holy 176 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:10,479 trinity it was the three things the 177 00:07:14,469 --> 00:07:12,400 trifecta you know kind of three things 178 00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:14,479 coming to once it was the aviation 179 00:07:19,029 --> 00:07:16,880 german your weapons and ufos so it was a 180 00:07:21,270 --> 00:07:19,039 slam dunk really 181 00:07:23,350 --> 00:07:21,280 well that's amazing i would have to ask 182 00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:23,360 you first of all how pissed did your 183 00:07:29,189 --> 00:07:25,440 wife get while you were writing this 184 00:07:32,070 --> 00:07:30,710 you know what i've learned to pay 185 00:07:33,430 --> 00:07:32,080 attention to joe 186 00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:33,440 she's uh 187 00:07:36,710 --> 00:07:34,720 she's a trooper 188 00:07:38,309 --> 00:07:36,720 look she she's she's an english teacher 189 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:38,319 and a drama teacher you know she used to 190 00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:40,400 be anyway um she doesn't do that anymore 191 00:07:45,670 --> 00:07:42,240 but she actually proofread my first book 192 00:07:47,670 --> 00:07:45,680 about siberia so she read all 350 pages 193 00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:47,680 of that now i didn't put her through 194 00:07:50,710 --> 00:07:49,360 reading this one but she has actually 195 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:50,720 got a copy and she's reading it she's 196 00:07:54,629 --> 00:07:52,960 interested she's always been you know 197 00:07:56,230 --> 00:07:54,639 very supportive of what i've done in 198 00:07:57,430 --> 00:07:56,240 terms of my writing projects even when i 199 00:07:59,990 --> 00:07:57,440 was used to be writing for aviation 200 00:08:01,990 --> 00:08:00,000 magazines years ago um she's always you 201 00:08:03,510 --> 00:08:02,000 know sort of been behind me and she's 202 00:08:05,589 --> 00:08:03,520 always asked me questions about what i'm 203 00:08:07,189 --> 00:08:05,599 writing and even now she asks you about 204 00:08:08,790 --> 00:08:07,199 what's happening you know what what's 205 00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:08,800 the latest information so she's 206 00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:10,800 interested on a level she's not actively 207 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:12,560 seeking the information itself but when 208 00:08:15,749 --> 00:08:14,240 we're sitting around the dinner table 209 00:08:17,510 --> 00:08:15,759 we're talking about various things the 210 00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:17,520 subject will come up or she'll ask us 211 00:08:21,029 --> 00:08:19,520 you know how's the book doing um you 212 00:08:22,629 --> 00:08:21,039 know is anybody who said anything nice 213 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:22,639 about it or anybody said it's crap you 214 00:08:25,909 --> 00:08:24,160 know all this kind of stuff 215 00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:25,919 so there's a whole lot of that goes on 216 00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:28,400 so it's not like i've um you know she's 217 00:08:31,909 --> 00:08:30,160 become like a kind of an author widow 218 00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:31,919 for you know for for six months when i 219 00:08:36,230 --> 00:08:34,560 was writing the book um although i do i 220 00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:36,240 do put in the comments there she hope 221 00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:37,839 she hopes she had her husband back after 222 00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,680 i finished that actually lock myself 223 00:08:43,509 --> 00:08:41,599 away in my room for every so often and 224 00:08:45,030 --> 00:08:43,519 every uh or you know every every sort of 225 00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:45,040 half an hour an hour would be a knock on 226 00:08:48,550 --> 00:08:46,640 the door and the door would help maybe a 227 00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:48,560 cup of tea walked in 228 00:08:52,070 --> 00:08:50,160 you know so 229 00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:52,080 there you go crime yeah that makes a 230 00:09:00,550 --> 00:08:58,470 yeah i mean i presume you have what you 231 00:09:02,470 --> 00:09:00,560 presume you're your other half it's 232 00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:02,480 pretty good you know with your gigs and 233 00:09:07,110 --> 00:09:05,120 uh with your songwriting giving you not 234 00:09:08,949 --> 00:09:07,120 not just la you know being supportive 235 00:09:10,710 --> 00:09:08,959 but letting you have the space to do it 236 00:09:13,269 --> 00:09:10,720 um without getting in your way sort of 237 00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:13,279 thing so i had that from joe so i'm i'm 238 00:09:16,949 --> 00:09:15,360 really i'm really um you know i'm 239 00:09:17,910 --> 00:09:16,959 grateful to it for that 240 00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:17,920 awesome 241 00:09:21,430 --> 00:09:18,880 um 242 00:09:24,070 --> 00:09:21,440 you know so we'll talk about your book 243 00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:24,080 well also i just have a lot of questions 244 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:26,800 too just about this because 245 00:09:31,030 --> 00:09:28,240 i feel you're right it's often 246 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:31,040 overlooked you know and it you know and 247 00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:32,800 to a certain extent you could consider 248 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:34,800 it the beginning of all of this and when 249 00:09:39,829 --> 00:09:37,360 you do hear the accounts of it they are 250 00:09:40,630 --> 00:09:39,839 so familiar with the accounts that you 251 00:09:43,110 --> 00:09:40,640 hear 252 00:09:44,949 --> 00:09:43,120 uh in the states during that time you 253 00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:44,959 know as far as what they look like and 254 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:46,880 how they traveled so but my first 255 00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:48,880 question would be 256 00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:51,200 why foo fighters 257 00:09:54,389 --> 00:09:52,640 i mean if you're talking about the name 258 00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:54,399 then obviously that comes from a 259 00:09:58,070 --> 00:09:55,440 specific 260 00:10:00,790 --> 00:09:58,080 period in time when a particular 261 00:10:03,030 --> 00:10:00,800 american night fighter squadron based in 262 00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:03,040 in france was actually encountering all 263 00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:04,560 their crews were encountering these 264 00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:06,640 these weird lights that were either sort 265 00:10:10,630 --> 00:10:08,320 of following their aircraft or just 266 00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:10,640 being seen uh night after night after 267 00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:13,760 night over the winter of 1944 1945 and 268 00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:16,240 that name came from a um from a cartoon 269 00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:18,720 strip uh called smokey stover and a 270 00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:20,480 particular aficionado of the strip was 271 00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:22,320 was one of the members of the squadron 272 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:25,680 uh and he'd used it in an exchange with 273 00:10:29,269 --> 00:10:27,600 the squadron's uh intelligence officer 274 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:29,279 where he slammed the comic down on a 275 00:10:31,910 --> 00:10:31,120 desk and said that's what they are 276 00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:31,920 they're 277 00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:33,600 food fighters 278 00:10:37,509 --> 00:10:35,680 the bit i didn't i didn't use there is 279 00:10:39,590 --> 00:10:37,519 the expletive that he actually used at 280 00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:39,600 the start and they were called that so 281 00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:41,279 they weren't really called just foo 282 00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:42,800 fighters but you can't really put that 283 00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:44,399 in the book to sell on amazon and i'm 284 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:45,760 sure dave grill wouldn't have gotten 285 00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:47,760 away with using the proper title you 286 00:10:51,269 --> 00:10:49,440 know as the name of the plan 287 00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:51,279 yeah well because nobody would 288 00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,720 the radio stations you know it wouldn't 289 00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:54,959 be very very family friendly so 290 00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,800 um you know you can imagine you can 291 00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,800 imagine how that would break down but 292 00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,560 there is a story behind that so the foo 293 00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,959 fighters themselves in terms of the name 294 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:04,320 you know it's a particular period of 295 00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:05,760 time and it goes from about november 296 00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:08,160 night ended in november 1944 as you said 297 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:09,360 when you read the introduction to the 298 00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:11,600 book um through to the end of the war 299 00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,320 however the phenomenon had been seen 300 00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:16,240 long before that and not just by the 301 00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:19,440 americans yeah so you've got this i mean 302 00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:21,040 you go back to the thing about you know 303 00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:22,880 how it's so so kind of confined the 304 00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:24,480 subject and why it's so qui people's 305 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,279 being so quiet about it is because those 306 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:29,760 earlier sightings really didn't exist in 307 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:31,680 terms of the public knowledge 308 00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,160 that those the sightings that had the 309 00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:35,680 name foo fighters 310 00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:38,000 they were collated by an intelligence 311 00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:39,519 officer who passed to the chain of 312 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:42,560 command and then some of them got um to 313 00:12:13,190 --> 00:11:43,360 a 314 00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,200 course 315 00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:15,040 that information must have resonated 316 00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,480 with this guy because he actually wrote 317 00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:18,399 an article for american legion magazine 318 00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,959 which was published in december 1945 319 00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,880 and it had about half a dozen of these 320 00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,639 sightings that were listed 321 00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,959 uh a couple from the pacific and another 322 00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,959 one from a daylight uh fighter squadron 323 00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,279 in um based in belgium thinking like 324 00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:33,519 fought in 1945 as well and that was the 325 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,959 article it was called the foo fighter 326 00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,160 mystery 327 00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,639 now that was the only more or less the 328 00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:40,560 only coverage of the foo fighters that 329 00:12:45,790 --> 00:12:43,519 you could find in the public realm 330 00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,800 between the end of the war and about the 331 00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,440 mid-1990s 332 00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,120 and that's where most people who wrote 333 00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:51,440 about the subject if they did at all 334 00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:53,360 got their information from 335 00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:55,040 now there were one or two other stories 336 00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:56,480 that came out there's a couple of raf 337 00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,720 stories came out in the 50s and 60s but 338 00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,399 really you could count those cases on 339 00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,240 you on the things that have two hands 340 00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,000 and that was it now that's probably why 341 00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:06,639 this subject was so low-key 342 00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:09,600 and you know so that's where that comes 343 00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:12,160 from so what i what i kind of think of 344 00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:15,040 off the bat to be honest is 345 00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:18,000 you know a lot of people tie these ufo 346 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:20,720 sightings and the existence to them um 347 00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:23,680 possibly to the first nuclear bomb 348 00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:26,000 yeah um and the explosions of that 349 00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:27,839 around at white sands or whatever 350 00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:29,360 wherever that was los alamos or 351 00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:30,240 something 352 00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,440 um 353 00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:32,720 so 354 00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:35,680 does this kind of negate that point 355 00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:37,040 it doesn't it doesn't 356 00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:38,800 if you look at if you look at it that 357 00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:41,199 way then it does however you have to 358 00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:43,040 remember the atomic fission i think was 359 00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:44,880 invented in 1938 360 00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:46,480 uh the 361 00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,240 you know the manhattan project i think 362 00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,160 kicked off in 1942 363 00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:51,839 so 364 00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,079 if if you go along the lines of if you 365 00:13:58,629 --> 00:13:56,480 speculate that you know whoever you know 366 00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:58,639 whatever these things are if they're 367 00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:00,160 they're tracking our kind of nuclear 368 00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:02,720 technology then it's possible they might 369 00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:04,399 have been aware of our knowledge of the 370 00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,560 subject from even before the war just 371 00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:08,160 before the war so therefore they could 372 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,240 have been keeping tabs just on on you 373 00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:12,560 know on the planet or the species as a 374 00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,279 whole uh or it could be some other 375 00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:17,199 reason or maybe just coincidence 376 00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:18,000 you know 377 00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:20,720 you can't speculate anyways exactly so 378 00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:22,240 the people who say oh it's because the 379 00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:25,040 first atom bombs went off in 45. 380 00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,160 i mean 381 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:27,839 it's a good point you know it's a good 382 00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:30,160 thing to to start a kind of conversation 383 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,600 from but it's you can't prove it it just 384 00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,120 you know it could well be coincidence 385 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,600 but it might not be but if you if you go 386 00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:39,920 back a bit then you could argue that the 387 00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:41,440 knowledge was there beforehand and if 388 00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:44,240 they're aware of somehow um then you 389 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:45,760 know that would be a good reason for 390 00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:47,600 them to keep close tabs on what we were 391 00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:49,600 doing and of course you've got this huge 392 00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:51,920 conflict a worldwide conflict raging 393 00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:53,519 across the world so therefore that's 394 00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,040 something else that people might be you 395 00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,720 know you know someone might be looking 396 00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,480 at with a with a good with a big 397 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,639 interest so you know who knows 398 00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,440 well let's uh let's take a uh pause here 399 00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:05,279 to take a break and say hello to 400 00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:08,399 everybody so i did want to say hi to 401 00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,040 oh we got a new person hello from vienna 402 00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:13,760 austria awesome thanks for joining us 403 00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:16,639 don't be a stranger bass what's up 404 00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,600 scott 405 00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:19,279 awesome hello 406 00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:22,480 um who else we got nigel what's going on 407 00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:25,440 megan my favorite hello 408 00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:28,320 um jos nice to see you again 409 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,959 uh lara spaghetti spaghetti is talking 410 00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:32,320 about something pretty cool with 411 00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:33,839 einstein 412 00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:36,160 um and a possible roswell break so i 413 00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:38,240 can't wait to see that link 414 00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:39,519 um 415 00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:42,320 what else we got here uap curiosity 416 00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:43,759 what's up 417 00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:44,720 um 418 00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:46,959 i don't want to miss anybody 419 00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:48,800 alien girl what's up 420 00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,920 awesome 421 00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,959 um 422 00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:52,720 nice to see you 423 00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:55,839 and vapid engage what's up brother 424 00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,320 you guys are my homies avril what's 425 00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,320 going on 426 00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:02,320 and this is this is getting to be quite 427 00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:06,000 a a thing listing everybody 428 00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,279 grandmaster 429 00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:09,600 what's up brother good to see you 430 00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,480 um rogue report hello 431 00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,079 and 432 00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:16,079 disclosure team 433 00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:17,759 what's up 434 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:21,040 how are you 435 00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:22,720 all right so 436 00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,360 yeah so just wanted to to do that real 437 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,759 quick so what how 438 00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,440 you've joined me like is this the third 439 00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:31,519 or fourth time or maybe even fifty yeah 440 00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,360 yeah it might be the fifth man 441 00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:35,120 different subjects though 442 00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:36,639 yeah definitely 443 00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:38,399 um it's it's always a pleasure and i 444 00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:39,759 feel like i get to know you a little 445 00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:41,759 more and it's pretty neat to 446 00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:45,900 hello sir hi nigel 447 00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:48,160 [Music] 448 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,800 so i wanted to you know it's awesome to 449 00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,480 get to know you a little bit and see 450 00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,240 everything you're doing and all the work 451 00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:56,240 you're doing writing articles for the 452 00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,959 debrief uap media uk 453 00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:01,040 and then kind of going back to where you 454 00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:03,360 and i started almost which was the foo 455 00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:04,400 fighters 456 00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:06,959 and now this book is out and it seems to 457 00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:09,520 be going pretty well uh how do you feel 458 00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:12,000 about it now that it's out you 459 00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,839 do you feel like people are taken to it 460 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:15,679 well is it um 461 00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,240 meeting your expectations or is it like 462 00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,240 in music i always find it's best not to 463 00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,319 have any but 464 00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:24,480 yeah it's like when when you write a 465 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:27,439 book and then you publish it um you have 466 00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:29,200 well you might have expectations but 467 00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:30,960 really you've got no idea how it's going 468 00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,600 to be received um the only yardstick i 469 00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,120 had was you know the kind of positive 470 00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,360 comments i had on ufo twitter uh i was 471 00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,120 going by that and also by the article i 472 00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:41,039 wrote for the debrief back in april uh 473 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,559 the one that uh chris mellon you know 474 00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,080 sort of 475 00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:46,480 endorsed that um 476 00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,080 and the positive comments i had and the 477 00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,240 kind of feedback i had from that that 478 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:52,240 suggested to me that there was yes that 479 00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:53,840 was a kind of an audience and a 480 00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:55,679 readership for the book so that spurred 481 00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,400 me on um in terms of in terms of how 482 00:18:01,590 --> 00:18:00,080 it's been received so far yeah i've had 483 00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:01,600 some really really good comments about 484 00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:03,679 it um you know the people who have read 485 00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:06,000 it already um love it 486 00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,679 according to what they've said to me so 487 00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,120 and i can only go on that and i haven't 488 00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:11,760 had any any really bad comments yet so 489 00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,789 you covered it too well graham come on 490 00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,640 yeah yeah that's fine the book's too big 491 00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:24,640 i can't lift it i've sprained my arm 492 00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,799 lifting it up 493 00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:29,200 now i'm in the hospital so 494 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:30,880 so yeah the sale the sales are going 495 00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,240 well so i i am happy um so do i get my 496 00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:36,160 percentage i thought i got a percentage 497 00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:37,840 you know did you go 498 00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:43,270 um 499 00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:45,280 you know so these foo fighters are 500 00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,160 showing up at world war ii um 501 00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:50,400 and there's a dog fight basically that 502 00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:51,440 was correct 503 00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,120 there's a few yeah 504 00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:54,799 there's a few listed in the book 505 00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:57,200 um so 506 00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,559 what were they thinking this was what 507 00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:01,280 was their best human guess was it uh 508 00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,320 german 509 00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:04,080 yeah that was i guess 510 00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:05,600 they had no you've got to remember they 511 00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:07,919 had no frame of reference beyond the 512 00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:10,400 possibility of german superweapons so if 513 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:12,320 you're fighting an implacable enemy for 514 00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:15,200 the germans in in world war ii then they 515 00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,880 were almost they were demonstrating 516 00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:18,960 already at that by about 1942 that they 517 00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:20,000 had new 518 00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:22,080 improved weapons in the pipeline so the 519 00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,679 weapons that both sides started the war 520 00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,000 with weren't the ones that finished with 521 00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,840 they were always introducing new new 522 00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,240 tanks new guns new aircraft uh new 523 00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:32,160 rockets all that all the rest of it 524 00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:33,360 you know every so often there'll be 525 00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:35,840 something turned up so both sides were 526 00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:38,400 conditioned to the other bringing new 527 00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,240 weapons onto the battlefield and of 528 00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,160 course these these things probably to 529 00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,160 their minds were no different so if 530 00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:45,840 you've got an raf bomber crew flying 531 00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,559 around in well in march 1942 which is 532 00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,799 the earliest case i can find 533 00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:52,559 then if they've they've got a light 534 00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,679 coming up and that's the cover of the 535 00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:56,000 book by the way um if they've got a 536 00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:58,240 cover a light sorry coming up behind 537 00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:59,440 them 538 00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,400 then 539 00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,400 which they open fire on and the bullets 540 00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:04,240 don't do anything 541 00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:06,080 don't damage it don't knock it down 542 00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:08,159 don't make it explode anything like it 543 00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,360 then it flies around the side of the 544 00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:11,440 aircraft then flies off in into the 545 00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:14,320 distance you know totally unscathed then 546 00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,760 they're going to think that is something 547 00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:17,200 new that the germans have come out with 548 00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:19,520 they're not shooting at it oh they were 549 00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:21,200 shooting at it 550 00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:22,799 and nothing happened 551 00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:25,200 yeah so not many people talk about that 552 00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:26,799 because we're always looking oh dark 553 00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:28,400 fights that they shoot us did we shoot 554 00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:30,000 them what happened well they talk about 555 00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,600 retaliation in terms of the aircraft 556 00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,520 usually don't come back don't they but 557 00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:35,520 in this case and in some other cases 558 00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,000 that i've got in the book that these 559 00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,480 things whatever they were were shot at 560 00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,559 and in the terms of the encounter which 561 00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,559 is displayed on the front of the book 562 00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,799 it was shot at quite a lot because not 563 00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:49,039 only did the tail gonna shoot at this 564 00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:50,880 light then when it moved around towards 565 00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:52,240 the front of the aircraft the nose gonna 566 00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,600 find it as well so it absorbed if for 567 00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:57,120 one of the better phrase 568 00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,799 lots of bullets 569 00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:01,120 and to no effect whatsoever 570 00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:04,240 so if they tried to see if the bullets 571 00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:05,360 like 572 00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,679 landed underneath it at some point well 573 00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:09,520 it couldn't be if it didn't drop if you 574 00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,320 you know 575 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,480 if you if you if you read the kind of 576 00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,640 you know the the the testimony by the 577 00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,200 pilot he said that the bullets just went 578 00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:19,600 into it and nothing happened 579 00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,679 so and that's all he says they couldn't 580 00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:24,000 work out what was going on and 581 00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:25,280 you can imagine 582 00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,400 if that was the case and they were 583 00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,480 firing something and there was no 584 00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:30,559 immediate observable effect they must 585 00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,320 have been terrified because you know 586 00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:34,240 their weapons were useless you know this 587 00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,919 thing was just sitting off the tail and 588 00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:37,679 then you know the gun that the rear 589 00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,520 gunner was you know to the point of 590 00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,200 exhausting his bullets on this thing and 591 00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:42,720 then it just it just calmly flew around 592 00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:44,000 to the side of the aircraft and sat off 593 00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,159 the wing tip for a while and then it 594 00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,320 flew around to the nose and stuffed the 595 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,159 nose even as the aircraft was going 596 00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:52,320 forward the nose gonna fire it on it and 597 00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,840 then just shut off into the into the 598 00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:55,760 distance and this is a kind of common 599 00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:57,520 theme that you know 600 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,559 you might not get all the encounters um 601 00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:02,080 actually being an engagement whether the 602 00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:03,919 gunners or the pilots open fire with 603 00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,559 machine guns but for these lights to fly 604 00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:08,559 around aircraft with you know relative 605 00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:09,679 impunity 606 00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:11,200 what's been frightening for the crews 607 00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,400 and they would have thought this was 608 00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,559 some new new german secret weapon there 609 00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,760 was you know they didn't have 610 00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:17,039 extraterrestrials on their mind they 611 00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:18,559 didn't have flight sources on the on 612 00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,080 that might all these things were you 613 00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:22,159 know were were needed on their radar so 614 00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:24,000 to speak these were things that were 615 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,919 going to come along in a few years time 616 00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:27,120 so 617 00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,480 it must have been really really 618 00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,320 horrifying for them and terrifying for 619 00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:31,840 them to see these things and for them to 620 00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,960 do nothing about it and the crewmen were 621 00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,720 were petrified there while there are 622 00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:38,400 cases you know stories from when they 623 00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,000 got on the ground you know they were 624 00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:42,320 scared you know the witless you know did 625 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,360 they have any soiled pants 626 00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:47,360 i suspect so 627 00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,679 i would have if i'd seen these things so 628 00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:52,320 yes sir you know me i'm bugoffia right 629 00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:58,950 yeah i'm just going to the quartermaster 630 00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,520 store to draw some new underwear 631 00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:03,360 did they have any did they give out 632 00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:05,919 warnings after like the first encounter 633 00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:08,400 um like hey you might experience this or 634 00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,320 anything like that or no did they have 635 00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,400 any um were they suppressing the 636 00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:14,720 testimony at all or were they 637 00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,600 uh telling their other comrades 638 00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,280 so it's difficult to work out what the 639 00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:21,600 official line was beyond 640 00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:22,559 kind of 641 00:23:26,230 --> 00:23:24,480 just more or less a complete silence in 642 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:26,240 terms of what the crews got to hear 643 00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,280 afterwards so the way it worked was you 644 00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,960 came back off a raid this is the raf i'm 645 00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:32,240 talking about so this is the early part 646 00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,440 of the war when 647 00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:35,440 the first 175 pages of the book talking 648 00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:36,799 about the area sightings i managed to 649 00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,840 find 650 00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:39,120 and these aren't ones that actually 651 00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,480 appeared in print before these are ones 652 00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:42,159 that dug out the official 653 00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,200 records okay yeah so you know not many 654 00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:46,880 of them actually have been sort of you 655 00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,640 know published before 656 00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,400 so you've got 657 00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:52,559 the way it works that though make sure 658 00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,400 make sure you hit those 659 00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,400 yeah for sure you've got the way it 660 00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,640 worked was you came back off a raid and 661 00:24:02,310 --> 00:24:00,720 then you were debriefed by um an 662 00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:02,320 intelligence officer in the squadron and 663 00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:04,000 he would take down all the details that 664 00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:05,600 the the pilots and the rest of the crew 665 00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:07,840 talked about so it usually just be along 666 00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,520 the lines of you know did you drop your 667 00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,120 bombs on time were they accurate what 668 00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:13,120 was the weather like um were there any 669 00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,640 fighters in the area what was the flock 670 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,240 like that kind of thing 671 00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:18,320 but that was also the chance for the 672 00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:21,279 crews to talk about other stuff so 673 00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,279 strange things they might have seen odd 674 00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:25,279 flares odd lights 675 00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:26,960 um and of course these things that chase 676 00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:29,279 the aircraft now funnily enough the 677 00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:31,120 reaction that they got the first 678 00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,880 reaction they usually got from the 679 00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:34,799 intelligence officer was quotes oh 680 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:36,159 you've been drinking 681 00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,840 have you been drinking on duty of course 682 00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:39,600 because they just didn't believe them 683 00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,279 but of course you know more and more of 684 00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:43,039 these stories came along there was 685 00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:44,400 probably 686 00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:46,080 you know a tendency for them to actually 687 00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,440 maybe not believe them but certainly 688 00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:49,440 right to pass them forward and in some 689 00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,120 cases these reports did get passed 690 00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:53,120 passed up the chain command 691 00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:54,480 now it's difficult to work out what 692 00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:56,000 happened to them because only in a few 693 00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,640 cases do you get any kind of paper trail 694 00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,240 and do you get any kind of subsequent 695 00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:01,919 supporting 696 00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:04,000 so it didn't really you know you can't 697 00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,880 really trace where it went and who 698 00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:08,000 looked at it 699 00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,120 but you can look at some of the 700 00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:10,880 intelligence reports that bomber command 701 00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,559 came up with that they had what they 702 00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,400 called the operational research section 703 00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,159 which was that it was like a little 704 00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,679 think tank where they analyzed 705 00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,960 information coming in from the bomber 706 00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,799 cruise and they looked at all the new 707 00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:22,799 stuff what the germans seem to be doing 708 00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:24,880 in terms of anti-aircraft events uh 709 00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:26,720 night fighter defense and they tried to 710 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:29,200 apply those same kind of analysis that 711 00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,720 was done on those things to these 712 00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,559 strange lights or to things that were 713 00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:34,000 following the aircraft because they 714 00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:37,440 spent about six months analyzing 715 00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:39,039 what they what they described as 716 00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,240 aircraft 717 00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,919 following bombers but just following 718 00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,840 them not doing anything now you've got 719 00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:45,279 to remember that you know the night the 720 00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:47,440 german knight fighter force it's kind of 721 00:25:52,710 --> 00:25:50,720 ra razon detroit was to shoot down alot 722 00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,720 bombers there was no point then flying 723 00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:53,919 around the skies of 724 00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:56,080 germany just looking around for aircraft 725 00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:57,279 go oh there's like there's a nice 726 00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:59,200 lancaster we'll just follow it no the 727 00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:00,640 idea was to shut them down so they 728 00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:02,559 didn't drop bombs on their cities so 729 00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:03,840 there was no point in these things 730 00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:05,919 flying around chasing or just following 731 00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:08,000 aircraft from mile after mile after mile 732 00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:09,840 and in some cases they were following 733 00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:11,440 them for over 100 miles sometimes even 734 00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:12,720 200 miles 735 00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:13,600 so 736 00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:15,039 there was a there was a lot a lot of 737 00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,840 analysis because the rf command couldn't 738 00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:19,520 work out what was going on and they 739 00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:21,200 still couldn't after six months they 740 00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,960 gave up because they just didn't have an 741 00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,480 answer and yet these things were 742 00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:26,559 following the other bombers you know 743 00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,640 every raid or or every few raids so 744 00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,000 that's right 745 00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,840 what does it really sound like that 746 00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,080 sounds like like if you read through 747 00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:36,000 those documents i just post that there 748 00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,600 are so many stories like that even uh dc 749 00:26:43,230 --> 00:26:42,320 when they vectored out two um jets but 750 00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:43,240 the 751 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:49,360 starfighters yeah yeah 94. so one 752 00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:52,000 one like didn't really catch anything 753 00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:53,520 didn't see anything vectored out there 754 00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:55,840 the other one um 755 00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:58,880 it was tailing them until four miles 756 00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:01,360 until they got to the the runway it's 757 00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:02,880 it's like 758 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,640 and yeah so that's just insane um now 759 00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:10,720 so there's no like really policies put 760 00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:13,039 in place obviously after that because 761 00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,559 you know if you don't believe it you're 762 00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:16,240 not gonna do something different that 763 00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,679 way um 764 00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,520 not early in the war anyway the 765 00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,360 americans actually when he got to the 766 00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:23,120 when the foo fighters were coined as a 767 00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:25,279 phrase and that wasn't an official name 768 00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:26,240 it was just something that won the 769 00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,919 squadrons um one of the cruz one that 770 00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,360 squadrons came up with 771 00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:31,200 but after about a couple of months so 772 00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:32,960 you're getting into sort of december 773 00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,760 1944 the intelligence officer for the 774 00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:38,000 for one particular squad in the 415th 775 00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,760 knife squadron was based in eastern 776 00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:40,880 france 777 00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:43,679 he had got so many reports from his 778 00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:44,799 crews 779 00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:46,240 that he started writing them down he 780 00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,640 started compounding lists because he 781 00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:50,159 thought that we're gonna have to do 782 00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,440 something about this because it was just 783 00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,200 night after night after night 784 00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,880 and it got to the point where most if 785 00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:56,240 not all the crews in the squadron had 786 00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:58,159 actually seen these things 787 00:28:02,149 --> 00:27:59,840 um so 788 00:28:03,269 --> 00:28:02,159 he actually compiled a list and then 789 00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,279 sort towards the end of january 790 00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:05,760 beginning in february 1945. he passed it 791 00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:08,240 on to his superiors not in the squadron 792 00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,679 but actually in the next link of the 793 00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,600 chain so that was the what they call a 794 00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:14,080 fighter wing the 64 fighter wing 795 00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,159 um and they didn't know what to do with 796 00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,240 it you know i mean i go through it all 797 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:20,159 in the book about the exchange because 798 00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,760 those females those documents are 799 00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:23,440 available and you can see the interplay 800 00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:25,600 between 64 fighter wing and their 801 00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:28,159 superiors in 12 and 12 tactical air 802 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:29,840 command and that's another link up the 803 00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:31,840 chain again and that's one step removed 804 00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,760 from ninth air force headquarters and 805 00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:35,760 ninth air force was one of the two air 806 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:37,919 forces based in europe uh based in 807 00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:39,760 britain and then in the continent who 808 00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,520 were taking the war to germany so you're 809 00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:43,440 going quite high up the food chain here 810 00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:44,640 and none of them actually could do 811 00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:45,520 anything with it because they just 812 00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,720 didn't know what they were looking at 813 00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,840 because then you can see that the 814 00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,440 message is coming back down the chain 815 00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:51,360 saying well which part of the aircraft 816 00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,360 are these lights attached to 817 00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:55,120 but that wasn't what they were saying 818 00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,120 they were saying they were just light so 819 00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,039 it basically demonstrated a lack of 820 00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,440 knowledge from the commanders going back 821 00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,279 you know asking the questions again well 822 00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:05,039 what are they when they were saying well 823 00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,880 you know where where on the aircraft are 824 00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:08,640 these lights well they were saying well 825 00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:09,679 no they're not they're just lights 826 00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,600 they're not aircraft 827 00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,760 so there was it was always kind of 828 00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:15,200 well yeah it was it was this kind of 829 00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:16,240 conversation that you know they were 830 00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,360 missing the 831 00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,600 the kind of context you know at one time 832 00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:21,200 they were being told that there were 833 00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,640 just lights and then they were coming 834 00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:23,919 back and say well what part of the 835 00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,760 aircraft are the lights on well no they 836 00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,960 weren't 837 00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:28,799 so you know they couldn't even get their 838 00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:30,880 heads around what the phenomenon 839 00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:32,960 represented and it did settle down 840 00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:35,120 eventually they did actually sort of try 841 00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:37,200 and pass it on to people well actually 842 00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:38,880 in the ministry in london they are the 843 00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:41,039 british air ministry that's where all 844 00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:43,919 this kind of um questioning went to and 845 00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:46,559 they they looked at it for some re uh 846 00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:49,279 for some tier some time but couldn't 847 00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:50,559 understand it either and they came up 848 00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:52,159 with some fairly prosaic explanation 849 00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:53,679 which i've got in the book which didn't 850 00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:55,039 make any sense 851 00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:57,120 um so yeah 852 00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,919 there's 853 00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:59,840 elizabeth 854 00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:01,440 they never got their heads around it at 855 00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:02,159 all 856 00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,039 you know 857 00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:07,600 probably really nice radar systems at 858 00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:10,000 that time i would imagine or maybe they 859 00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:13,039 did towards 45 or hours 860 00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:16,320 they had they had radar as early as 1940 861 00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:19,120 um or even yeah well we ha 862 00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,720 britain we we had a chain of radar 863 00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:22,559 stations um 864 00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,640 it wasn't complete in 1939 when the war 865 00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:26,080 started but by the start that by the 866 00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:29,120 battle of britain in june 1940 it was 867 00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,720 right down the east coast of england we 868 00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:32,720 had radar stations that could pick up 869 00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:34,799 aircraft coming towards us at high range 870 00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:36,799 and even in places that low at a really 871 00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,559 low level so 872 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,880 we were and of course those uh we were 873 00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,559 ready and of course those systems were 874 00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,399 developed as the war went on and then 875 00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:46,640 the germans had their own um 876 00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:49,120 ground-based radar systems and then they 877 00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,760 also then both them and us we developed 878 00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:54,080 uh airborne radar so these were like 879 00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:55,679 smaller sets that you could put into it 880 00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:57,519 into a night fighter and you could fly 881 00:31:01,029 --> 00:30:59,200 around and look for aircraft now they 882 00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:01,039 didn't actually have the dish you know 883 00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,480 you have nowadays where the other dish 884 00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,799 goes around or or swivels from side to 885 00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:07,039 side in the front of a in the front of a 886 00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:09,519 fighter jet um there were quite you know 887 00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,880 crude devices and the the radar observer 888 00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,399 observer basically in the back of the 889 00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:16,799 aircraft looking like an oscilloscope so 890 00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:18,159 it wasn't even like a kind of plot going 891 00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,760 around around circles like you see on 892 00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,919 the movies you know it goes 893 00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,600 it was just what you would say like in a 894 00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,000 doctor surgery in a hospital operating 895 00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,679 theater you know like with a line going 896 00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:29,519 across like that and they had to work 897 00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:31,760 out the position the direction the speed 898 00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:33,519 from that information so it was quite 899 00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:34,799 basic 900 00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,279 yeah yeah and the range was only did it 901 00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:39,840 catch anything well the the the range of 902 00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:42,000 an airborne system back in about 1943 903 00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:44,399 1944 was maybe five miles you know if 904 00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,640 you're looking um so you're flying 905 00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:48,240 around in the dark looking for stuff but 906 00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:49,679 you could pick stuff up it was coming 907 00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,799 close now those our british system it 908 00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:54,720 was called airborne radio mark eight we 909 00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:56,480 actually gave it to you in america and 910 00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,669 you had copies of our radar our airborne 911 00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,760 radar system in the aircraft that you 912 00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,360 flew um 913 00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:09,360 both the we have we supplied you with 914 00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:12,000 bristol bow fighters which you used and 915 00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:14,799 also you had your own p-61 black widows 916 00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,440 um that you also used later on so but 917 00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:19,360 they they carried the same kind of radar 918 00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:20,720 equipment it was basically a copy of the 919 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,200 british system now they did work and 920 00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,200 they did pick up german aircraft but in 921 00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:27,120 every case where these lights were seen 922 00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:28,799 they couldn't pick them up 923 00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,919 and of course these lights were 924 00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,279 barreling in on them and then following 925 00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:33,679 them and that was close enough that even 926 00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:35,679 the british system could work could pick 927 00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:36,559 them up 928 00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:39,440 not a thing yeah and in one case uh yeah 929 00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,559 i don't know if you've you've read the 930 00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:42,799 book out now sean haven't you yeah a lot 931 00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:45,039 of it not all of it yet okay well 932 00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:46,960 there's one part of the book what we're 933 00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,799 in the book club 934 00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,640 one of the american pilots basically 935 00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:52,720 raider a radios a ground station and 936 00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,679 says can you see what's following us 937 00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,360 and the radar station turned and 938 00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,120 basically replied there's nothing up 939 00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:01,600 there with you at all and yet they had a 940 00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,080 light on their tail so you know they 941 00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:06,320 weren't being picked up on radar 942 00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:08,960 so it's really weird uh you know what 943 00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,120 was going on things following aircraft 944 00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:13,279 can't be picked up on radar 945 00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,000 yeah 946 00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:16,240 you're drinking now did these 947 00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,200 did these have uh tails or what was like 948 00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:21,440 the best physical description lights 949 00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,399 from lights lights okay yep so 950 00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:26,640 early in the world yellow you you fight 951 00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,799 you find that the terminology changes 952 00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,880 so they were originally they were called 953 00:33:34,389 --> 00:33:32,480 mystery aircraft 954 00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,399 um in some of the earliest intelligence 955 00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:36,240 reports when they're talking about these 956 00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,519 things that follow aircraft they're just 957 00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:39,840 called aircraft um now some of them 958 00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:41,919 probably were undoubtedly night fighters 959 00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:43,760 but in a lot of cases they had lights on 960 00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,799 them 961 00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,480 and of course it was just the light that 962 00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:48,399 was being seen if in the dark you were 963 00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:49,440 seeing a light coming up behind your 964 00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:51,200 aircraft you would assume it was a night 965 00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:53,440 fighter and that's how it was all laid 966 00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:55,919 down in the reports but then 967 00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:58,240 some of the intelligence report later on 968 00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,880 say that um the terminology changed to 969 00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:03,200 rockets because these lights were flying 970 00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,279 around really quickly so they started 971 00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,360 calling them rockets in the intelligence 972 00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:09,520 reports yeah you see that there's 973 00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:11,919 american reports too yeah but then 974 00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,440 here's the next thing 975 00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,679 in that in late 1944 when the germans 976 00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:17,200 started flying jet aircraft in the 977 00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:18,320 daytime 978 00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:20,000 the ally the allies thought that they 979 00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:21,520 would start seeing them at night at some 980 00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:23,919 stage so then you get these mystery jet 981 00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,399 reports by the bomber crews in about 982 00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,960 octo starting in about october 1944 983 00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,800 that's actually before the germans ever 984 00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,280 fielded aircraft jet aircraft at night 985 00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,599 they started in december 1944 in a very 986 00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:37,839 very small scale and not enough to 987 00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:40,159 affect the bombers and 988 00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:41,359 there's a whole thing about in in the 989 00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,639 book i go into the history of the german 990 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:44,480 night the jet knight fighter force and 991 00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,760 how it applies for some of these 992 00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:47,599 sightings but i'll just finish this 993 00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:49,679 point sorry 994 00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,679 those particular kind of you know the 995 00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:53,760 sightings couldn't have been couldn't 996 00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:56,079 have been jets but they were called jets 997 00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:58,640 so you've got aircraft to rockets to 998 00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:01,119 jets the terminology changed but the 999 00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:02,640 phenomenon was exactly the same they 1000 00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:04,480 were just fast moving lights 1001 00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:06,800 that was all it was it kind of reminds 1002 00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:09,119 me of you know all the different names 1003 00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,119 that we've called it unidentified aerial 1004 00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:13,119 phenomenon unmanned 1005 00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:16,640 or unknown aerial vehicle you know um 1006 00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:18,720 unconventional aircraft all the 1007 00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,560 different things yeah 1008 00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,599 pretty 1009 00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,200 it's it's 1010 00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,520 it's interesting to see how 1011 00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,160 um humans work when they don't know what 1012 00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:30,480 something is and they always you know 1013 00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,800 what they go to categorize it as is is 1014 00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:34,720 always very interesting to me what was 1015 00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:37,599 the highest rank of somebody that has 1016 00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:40,640 has ran into the foo fighters 1017 00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,880 well certainly the um the commanding 1018 00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:44,800 officer of uh one of the squadrons in it 1019 00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:45,920 won the knight fighter squad was in 1020 00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:48,720 italy he was a major he he'd had his own 1021 00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,480 sightings fully enough he turned out to 1022 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,880 be a brigadier later in life in the 1023 00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,200 1960s and 1024 00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,359 if you look up the bollinder memo which 1025 00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:59,040 was to do with blue the cancellation of 1026 00:36:01,510 --> 00:36:00,079 blue book 1027 00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:01,520 well full enough he was that he was a 1028 00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:02,720 commanding officer of a knight fighter 1029 00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,960 squad in italy in 1944 1030 00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,119 and he ran into something like that and 1031 00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:09,680 and plenty of these men did as well 1032 00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:10,480 so 1033 00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,040 you've got a major um that's about as 1034 00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,720 high as you get up the food chain in 1035 00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:16,480 terms of people who actually saw these 1036 00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:17,599 things but then again they were 1037 00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,079 commanding officers um the information 1038 00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,160 went to you know lieutenant lieutenant 1039 00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,640 colonels and colonels and probably even 1040 00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,960 as high as general uh hup arnold 1041 00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:28,800 actually did get reports on on the foo 1042 00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:31,440 fighters um and about mystery mysterious 1043 00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,280 phenomenon you know um happening in 1044 00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:35,760 europe but also the pacific so the the 1045 00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:38,320 reports did go right to the top 1046 00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,359 but you know 1047 00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,119 what happened they're not flying the 1048 00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:43,760 planes though yeah no they're not uh but 1049 00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:45,200 there were some fairly high ranking in 1050 00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:46,640 terms of you know i mean major and 1051 00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:48,000 captains quite a high you know they're 1052 00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,760 quite high ranks and they were seeing 1053 00:36:53,349 --> 00:36:51,359 things as well so if you see if your 1054 00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,359 commanding officer is seeing things then 1055 00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:55,040 that makes it easy for the men to report 1056 00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:56,800 things you know as well 1057 00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,160 because it's not just a kind of you know 1058 00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:00,240 a thing that's it's not happening to the 1059 00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:02,240 the senior echelons 1060 00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:05,599 was there any uh espionage performed on 1061 00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:09,119 who they thought was guilty of this 1062 00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:15,589 their intelligence was based on 1063 00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:16,720 no i'm just trying to i'm trying to work 1064 00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:18,000 out how to answer it without giving too 1065 00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:19,359 much away in the book 1066 00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,599 yeah 1067 00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,960 oh wait make sure you tell them where 1068 00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:24,640 they can buy it i put the amazon link in 1069 00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,000 the description i'll do that yeah i'll 1070 00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,800 do that i'll do that um the 1071 00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:31,119 so the entire intelligence they had was 1072 00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:33,040 based on pilot testimony 1073 00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:34,640 it's not like some of the other german 1074 00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,480 secret weapons like the v1 flying bomb 1075 00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:38,480 or the v2 rocket which they actually did 1076 00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:40,800 eventually get bits off before they were 1077 00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:44,160 put into service so um bits of a bit to 1078 00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:46,000 the v2 rocket landing on an island of 1079 00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:48,720 sweden uh bits of an rv2 landed in 1080 00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,119 poland from a test site and the bits was 1081 00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:52,640 which actually did actually get back to 1082 00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,960 britain so they couldn't examine you 1083 00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:56,640 know parts of a rocket 1084 00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,880 uh and french resistance people had 1085 00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:00,480 either photographed or drawn the viewed 1086 00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:03,920 ones then they had access to plans and 1087 00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:05,520 various kind of you know surreptitious 1088 00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,960 methods and they did actually have an 1089 00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:08,079 idea of what what they were going to 1090 00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:08,880 face 1091 00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,560 whereas the foo fighters there was no 1092 00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:12,880 physical traces so it wasn't they 1093 00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,000 couldn't do the usual kind of 1094 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:15,839 intelligence they couldn't get bits of 1095 00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,400 them or they couldn't um send operatives 1096 00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,560 to go photograph them because nobody 1097 00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:22,640 knew where they came from nobody had any 1098 00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,599 clue 1099 00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:25,119 you know they weren't landing anywhere 1100 00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,640 as far as anybody could tell they 1101 00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,800 weren't crashing anywhere you know as 1102 00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:31,520 far as people knew so nobody got bits or 1103 00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:33,760 had photographs there was only one one 1104 00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:35,599 or two cases i could find where 1105 00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:37,920 allegedly photographs have been taken 1106 00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:39,920 but those photographs have never 1107 00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:41,839 surfaced so 1108 00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:44,000 it's all very strange uh the photographs 1109 00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,359 that you see the one that you use at the 1110 00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,960 start of the program the photographs you 1111 00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:48,720 normally see kicking around the internet 1112 00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,320 they tend to come from from the the 1113 00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,320 pacific wall um and whether or not 1114 00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:54,240 they're right you know there could just 1115 00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,760 be photographic defects as far as i'm 1116 00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,359 concerned i've never particularly seen a 1117 00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:59,440 photograph that makes me go i'm not sure 1118 00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:00,480 what that is 1119 00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,920 but yeah yeah that's right 1120 00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:05,599 but all the photographs none of them 1121 00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:07,839 have any kind of attribution either you 1122 00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,520 don't know who took the photograph you 1123 00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:11,119 know the date the place all the rest of 1124 00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:12,800 it so they're pretty much meaningless 1125 00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,640 really um you know i tend to discount 1126 00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:16,000 them and i've said so in the book as 1127 00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:18,560 well that i don't put much stock in in 1128 00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,880 the photographs that you know purport to 1129 00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:22,320 be foo fighters i'd rather go on the 1130 00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,680 testimony than i've pulled out of 1131 00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:26,400 records um you know the official records 1132 00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,320 squad records that kind of thing was 1133 00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,720 there any witnessing of how they left i 1134 00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:33,359 would just i think it was just they just 1135 00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,839 pretty much disappeared 1136 00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,680 they shot off in the usually they shot 1137 00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:38,960 off into the distance at incredible 1138 00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,119 speed and they couldn't catch them 1139 00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,119 in some cases they just 1140 00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:45,839 sort of winked out you know occasionally 1141 00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:47,760 um but most of the time you know they're 1142 00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,079 on the tail and then they just flew off 1143 00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,720 for for whatever reason so yeah 1144 00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,720 they couldn't catch them um you know it 1145 00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,400 was just the case they saw them they 1146 00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,200 departed they were gone that was it 1147 00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,800 uh where did you get most of your 1148 00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:02,640 records from if you don't mind me asking 1149 00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,599 i don't mind you asking um raf so the 1150 00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:08,240 national archives uh they have the stock 1151 00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:10,000 of the squadron what they call the 1152 00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,680 operation record books which are 1153 00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,359 basically histories of all the missions 1154 00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:15,200 that the squad the aircraft flew for 1155 00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:16,880 each individual aircraft in each 1156 00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:19,520 squadron uh they often have names of the 1157 00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:22,240 crews uh they have various details about 1158 00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:24,079 the each mission and so you can get it 1159 00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:25,599 there's a lot of information buried away 1160 00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:27,440 in that i've only touched uh you know 1161 00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:29,359 i've only seen a fraction of the records 1162 00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,800 um because they're from each month in 1163 00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,960 the war for each squadron wow so you've 1164 00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:34,240 got a lot 1165 00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,200 um 1166 00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:37,920 yeah exactly so it took a lot of doing 1167 00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:40,240 um and of course for each month there is 1168 00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:42,720 a one file for each month of each year 1169 00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:44,560 so for some of the squadrons that went 1170 00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:47,359 through from 39 to 45 you're looking at 1171 00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:49,839 what 60 you know 60 or 72 files or 1172 00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:50,800 something 1173 00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,400 um you know 1174 00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:54,160 and i mean i've got a lot of them on my 1175 00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:57,839 hard drive so or in the cloud so yeah 1176 00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:59,520 but the thing is they're in 1177 00:41:01,990 --> 00:41:00,960 some of them are the terminology you 1178 00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,000 have to know what you're looking at as 1179 00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:04,720 well so but a lot of them do stand out 1180 00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:05,680 you know 1181 00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:06,960 they'll talk about mysterious 1182 00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,520 projectiles mysterious rockets strange 1183 00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:11,760 lights uh that follow the aircraft 1184 00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:13,359 they're quite straightforward the 1185 00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,920 american details came from the air force 1186 00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,240 historical records agency at maxwell air 1187 00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:20,560 force base in alabama 1188 00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,640 and they probably got sick of my 1189 00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:24,000 requests because i was putting in 1190 00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:26,560 requests for like eight eight uh 1191 00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,640 microfilm reels at a time and they would 1192 00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,440 send me pdfs of this full 1193 00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:33,839 microfilm reel which had maybe 1300 1194 00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:35,359 pages on each one 1195 00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:37,359 so uh you know i would plow through 1196 00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:39,280 those and those were squadron records as 1197 00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,960 well or wing records or sometimes 1198 00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:43,200 tactical air command records and it was 1199 00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:45,200 just a question of me trying to work out 1200 00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,720 which units i had to look for you 1201 00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,079 couldn't just do a search for foo 1202 00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,000 fighters because that didn't work right 1203 00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,599 you know you would have to just go and 1204 00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:54,079 delve into the actual unit war diaries 1205 00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:55,760 and records like that but that was 1206 00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:58,400 fairly straightforward but that but my 1207 00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:01,119 kind of your interest in set world war 1208 00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,760 in kind of aviation from back then helps 1209 00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,920 because i know what i'm looking for so i 1210 00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:07,440 know the terminology that's used i know 1211 00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,359 what kind of you know aircraft i'm 1212 00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:11,599 looking for i know what squadrons were 1213 00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:13,040 where and where they were based and you 1214 00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:14,319 know what time frames and all this kind 1215 00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,079 of thing so it's fairly easy for me to 1216 00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:18,480 look up these records and and navigate 1217 00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:19,760 the search parameters because they're 1218 00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:22,079 not the easiest things to use either 1219 00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,440 but yeah that's where most of the 1220 00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:25,599 records came from 1221 00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:28,480 um when was the first account or 1222 00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:29,440 um 1223 00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:31,119 i guess you could say press report in 1224 00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:32,800 the united states 1225 00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:35,520 um without this yeah like late 1944 they 1226 00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:37,680 told about silver balls 1227 00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:42,069 it's difficult to know exactly where 1228 00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:43,839 they were so coming from without because 1229 00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,920 that wasn't the what was happening right 1230 00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,520 at that time but they were taking 1231 00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:49,680 reports from earlier in that year 1232 00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:50,160 there'd been 1233 00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:51,599 [Music] 1234 00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:52,800 reports 1235 00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:54,480 from the daylight bombers over germany 1236 00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,280 the b-17s the b-24 liberators that had 1237 00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,280 seen strange things and in the daytime 1238 00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,280 as well the foo fighters weren't really 1239 00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:03,359 confined just to the night there was 1240 00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:04,800 strange things seen today they weren't 1241 00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:07,680 light but there were odd objects um 1242 00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:09,040 they call them different things as well 1243 00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:10,640 there's a whole variety of names for the 1244 00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,640 things they're too many to go into 1245 00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:14,079 but one of them was one of them was 1246 00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:15,440 silver balls 1247 00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,760 they were they were seen quite a lot and 1248 00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,200 nobody knew what they were and still 1249 00:43:23,829 --> 00:43:21,440 don't know what they are um but that was 1250 00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,839 the thing and i think the the newspaper 1251 00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:25,040 because it was near christmas it was 1252 00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:26,240 kind of like oh well these are new 1253 00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:27,680 christmas decorations the germans have 1254 00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:29,200 got for us that was the first of the 1255 00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:30,640 articles so it's like the hubris 1256 00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:32,240 tongue-in-cheek one 1257 00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:33,599 yeah 1258 00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:35,040 that was the first american one that was 1259 00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:37,119 the first american press report anyway 1260 00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:40,800 do you remember when the one was a v2 1261 00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:43,359 v2 first use because what i think of is 1262 00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:45,280 you're right one crashed in sweden or 1263 00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:47,119 whatever but they were 1264 00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,319 calling it like an unidentified flying 1265 00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:52,800 object i thought too until they tested 1266 00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,599 it and found out that it was so yeah 1267 00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:58,000 so the the v2 rocker they first started 1268 00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:59,760 landing on london in 1269 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,760 early september 1944 1270 00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:04,000 um but they'd been obviously tested like 1271 00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:06,160 you know years before that so they were 1272 00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,280 the germans were playing around with 1273 00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:09,520 rockets actually um liquid field rockets 1274 00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,440 as early as about 1938 1275 00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,280 uh and even a little bit earlier with 1276 00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:14,800 solid fuel rockets so they were 1277 00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:17,359 developing the technology quite early um 1278 00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,520 the army weren't that interested but 1279 00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,359 they eventually gave them a big plot of 1280 00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,520 land on an island called ushdom which is 1281 00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:25,920 up near on the baltic opposite sweden 1282 00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:27,440 yeah it's in northern germany and the 1283 00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:28,800 place was called pinamunda it was just a 1284 00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:31,280 little fishing village on an island but 1285 00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,800 they actually recorded the whole place 1286 00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:34,319 often turned it into an army weapons 1287 00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:36,480 testing center uh i've actually visited 1288 00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,359 the place um i went there in 2014. it's 1289 00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,440 it's a fantastic place to walk around 1290 00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,280 because a lot of the old facilities are 1291 00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:45,280 still there you know the kind of place 1292 00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,880 that the foundations of the buildings 1293 00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,000 are still there you can walk around the 1294 00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,640 old roads uh the oxygen the oxygen the 1295 00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,880 liquid oxygen testing plant it's the 1296 00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,200 building's still there the bunker for 1297 00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:57,520 the firing is still there um you know 1298 00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:58,880 there's a lot of stuff which is still 1299 00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,560 there there's a really fantastic museum 1300 00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,720 there as well uh so if anybody's ever 1301 00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:04,480 you know gets the chance to go to peanut 1302 00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:05,760 and have a look at this place it's well 1303 00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:07,920 worth the effort um so yeah i've been 1304 00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:10,400 i've been there uh i made a pilgrimage 1305 00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:11,760 so um 1306 00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,079 yeah that's what i counted it as anyway 1307 00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:16,480 so so the germans did have this kind of 1308 00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,319 this kind of you know this technology 1309 00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,920 and they were perfecting it the v2 1310 00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:22,160 wasn't perfect uh it took a long time to 1311 00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,440 get to actually get to the point where 1312 00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:25,119 they could use it as a weapon and in the 1313 00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:26,480 meantime they were also experimenting 1314 00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:30,240 with the v1 flying bomb um and a lot of 1315 00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:32,240 people post war have put forward both 1316 00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,240 the v1 and the v2 as being possible 1317 00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,480 explanations to the foo fighters 1318 00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:38,319 no there's reasons why that's not the 1319 00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:40,400 case i explained that in the book i i 1320 00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:42,000 got a great length in the book to 1321 00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:44,560 explain why they weren't single weapons 1322 00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:47,440 of various stripes or the jet aircraft 1323 00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:49,119 uh or a whole lot of other things that 1324 00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:51,359 have been put forward that's the basic 1325 00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:52,560 that's the 1326 00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,160 that's what the service i've tried to 1327 00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,560 give readers i've tried to say what they 1328 00:46:02,390 --> 00:45:58,640 weren't i can't say what they are 1329 00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,670 that all that's the question that all of 1330 00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:05,599 us are asking isn't it but i'm pretty 1331 00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:07,520 confident in what 1332 00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:09,520 would you have still written the book if 1333 00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:12,079 you found out it was 1334 00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,760 perceived 1335 00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,440 if i found out it was something prosaic 1336 00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,760 yeah of course um 1337 00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,720 i mean 1338 00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,720 i'm in this i'm in this game 1339 00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:22,400 you followed you to work out what's 1340 00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:24,079 going on if it turns out to be something 1341 00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,680 mundane then fair enough i'll hold my 1342 00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:27,520 hands up and say okay that's what it is 1343 00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,359 but i'll just go where the data takes me 1344 00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:31,119 wherever it takes me and i've always 1345 00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,280 been like that i've been like that since 1346 00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:35,520 you know i started reading about this 1347 00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:36,319 you know 1348 00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:37,599 40 years ago 1349 00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:40,079 um i look at the subject with a kind of 1350 00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:42,240 an open mind i've always done that i've 1351 00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:43,760 never been one who's thinking it has to 1352 00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,160 be aliens or it has to be this or it has 1353 00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:48,560 to be that because really if you go down 1354 00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,240 those lines you end up defending at 1355 00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:52,240 quite a narrow position and you start 1356 00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,640 like twisting facts and narratives you 1357 00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:56,400 know to suit your position and then you 1358 00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:58,079 start having to defend against you know 1359 00:47:01,510 --> 00:47:00,079 new information that comes along or then 1360 00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:01,520 people pick holes in what you said then 1361 00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:03,440 you just look like an idiot so i've 1362 00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,880 never pinned myself down to one 1363 00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:07,200 particular oh it has to be that i'd 1364 00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:09,280 rather just keep the you know stand back 1365 00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,800 a bit and just wait 1366 00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,400 because i'm not going to be the one who 1367 00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,000 solves this problem you know or this 1368 00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:15,920 this issue or comes up with a you know 1369 00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:18,400 the rosetta stone that unlocks all the 1370 00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,079 all the magic about you know what what's 1371 00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:22,319 about what's going on somebody else will 1372 00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,559 do that but until then i'm not going to 1373 00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:27,119 stand here or sit here and go it's that 1374 00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,839 that's what this is you know 1375 00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:31,520 because you know i'm going to be proved 1376 00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:33,280 wrong if i did so 1377 00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:35,280 what what pulls you through what makes 1378 00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:38,000 you continue to search like when it got 1379 00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:39,599 tough writing the book 1380 00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:41,520 you know what did you tell yourself that 1381 00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:44,880 that got you over the hump to keep going 1382 00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,240 like what was that 1383 00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:48,400 down motivation well first of all i 1384 00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:49,280 wanted 1385 00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,720 to try and find out as much as i could 1386 00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,559 because i knew i knew a bit about the 1387 00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,880 subject but as i was finding more and 1388 00:48:01,670 --> 00:47:59,200 more information it was a case of oh 1389 00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,680 there must be more still to find and i 1390 00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:03,760 want to tell people about it and you 1391 00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,800 know 1392 00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:06,720 i'm in this perfect position where i've 1393 00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:09,040 got this interest in all three things so 1394 00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,319 you know if i'm not going to write if 1395 00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,760 i'm if i don't write this probably 1396 00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:14,240 nobody else will you know nobody else is 1397 00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,520 going to ferret through all these kind 1398 00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,440 of you know squadron documents and know 1399 00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,720 and sometimes maybe even know what 1400 00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:21,119 they're talking about um yeah yeah i'm 1401 00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:22,640 the person can come up with i mean i 1402 00:48:25,829 --> 00:48:23,680 don't want this to sound arrogant and 1403 00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,839 stuff but i just think i think i still 1404 00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,599 think now that if i didn't write this 1405 00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:29,520 probably nobody would have and no nobody 1406 00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:32,079 would would even think of doing it so it 1407 00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:34,000 had i felt it had to be written so that 1408 00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:36,079 was the main motivation but also just 1409 00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,680 people you know the comments i have from 1410 00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,880 people saying i'm really looking forward 1411 00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,880 to what you're writing uh you know i 1412 00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,559 can't wait to read it and hear about 1413 00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,400 what you've got to say that was a great 1414 00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,880 spur as well to get it finished and to 1415 00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:48,400 get it finished quickly and just to get 1416 00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,079 it out you know and of course having 1417 00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:52,240 sean on board to write the forward well 1418 00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:53,760 that that was wonderful you know when he 1419 00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:56,000 show when when originally broached the 1420 00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:57,760 subject and he showed an interest and 1421 00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,359 the particular interest he had in the 1422 00:49:02,549 --> 00:49:01,200 subject it wasn't just something that he 1423 00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,559 thought oh that that's you know that 1424 00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,160 that's great you know that's a really 1425 00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:06,079 interesting subject you had a he had a 1426 00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,920 personal connection then that was 1427 00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:09,520 another reason why i felt i really 1428 00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:11,760 needed to see it through 1429 00:49:16,150 --> 00:49:14,640 yeah uh well you did a 1430 00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:16,160 fantastic 1431 00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,800 job yeah i mean that's gonna like as all 1432 00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:20,880 these stories pass and things get older 1433 00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:22,880 and stories 1434 00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,760 start to become forgotten because 1435 00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:27,760 we're so confronted with what's 1436 00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:30,160 happening right now like it's so 1437 00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:32,079 difficult to get people to pay attention 1438 00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:34,640 to the history and get their minds off 1439 00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:37,040 of the navy videos for instance but i 1440 00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:39,839 feel like if they did look at that large 1441 00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:42,240 picture they did read your book they 1442 00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:44,720 realized that and then they go into the 1443 00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:47,520 accounts over here 1444 00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:50,240 their road on this this 1445 00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:52,079 you know their path on this disclosure 1446 00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:54,240 road would be a lot easier they would be 1447 00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,319 a lot more 1448 00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:58,640 convinced that something is going on 1449 00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:01,200 what it is i don't know but convinced 1450 00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:02,960 that something's happening and it's 1451 00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:04,880 still happening you know 1452 00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:06,559 um when you're confronted just with 1453 00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,079 what's in front of you 1454 00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:11,119 um it becomes a lot more challenging 1455 00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:14,079 um to you know not just say it's 1456 00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:17,680 something mosaic i guess you know yeah 1457 00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:19,119 i think if you look at what's happening 1458 00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:21,119 now i mean people are interested because 1459 00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:22,480 there's a lot of things just happening 1460 00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:23,839 around the world and happening at this 1461 00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:26,000 very moment and they're all extremely 1462 00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,800 intriguing but when you add on all the 1463 00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:30,079 things that have happened in the past 1464 00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:31,680 you go by as far as roswell but then you 1465 00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:34,240 go this extra few years even further 1466 00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:35,040 back 1467 00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:36,480 that people don't aren't really that 1468 00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:39,119 aware of it just to me it just adds that 1469 00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:41,040 extra dimension it's a bit more history 1470 00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:42,960 and it shows how much depth there is to 1471 00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:45,200 what's going on it's not just in the 1472 00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:47,040 here and now you know you're going back 1473 00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:48,319 80 years 1474 00:50:52,150 --> 00:50:49,920 so that's going to that's going to count 1475 00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:52,160 for something as far as i'm concerned 1476 00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,079 you can't necessarily what it is but you 1477 00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:55,680 can't then just dismiss it and think oh 1478 00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:57,760 it's just you know some some guys flying 1479 00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,280 around our aircraft carriers that don't 1480 00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:01,280 know what they're seeing no it's more 1481 00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,280 it's more than just that not that one 1482 00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:06,240 case on a few u.s navy cases you know 1483 00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:09,119 the flea videos it goes back away way 1484 00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:10,960 before that goes back 1485 00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:13,359 back more before people really put the 1486 00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:15,359 first dates you know kenneth arnold in 1487 00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,319 47 roswell and 47 actually no it's 1488 00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:20,240 before that it's a lot yeah a lot more 1489 00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,160 before that i don't know 1490 00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:24,319 words were documented well with that 1491 00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:26,400 and everything yeah and i'm not even 1492 00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:28,079 claiming this i would never claim this 1493 00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:30,640 is the start of the phenomenon it's just 1494 00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:31,839 it's probably down to the fact that 1495 00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:33,839 there were so many people flying around 1496 00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,520 not just in the day but also at night 1497 00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:37,440 back in the war you had you know tens of 1498 00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:39,440 thousands of people flying around every 1499 00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:41,920 day every night but they were bound to 1500 00:51:44,549 --> 00:51:43,119 see stuff 1501 00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,559 and that was probably one of the first 1502 00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:46,800 times that so many people had been in a 1503 00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:48,720 position that they could not only see 1504 00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:50,720 things but report things quite 1505 00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:51,920 accurately 1506 00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:54,160 and therefore that's why we have access 1507 00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:56,319 you know if people care to look 1508 00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:57,760 at this information 1509 00:52:01,510 --> 00:52:00,000 that is quite interesting that you know 1510 00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:01,520 you don't see what you don't look for 1511 00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:02,800 but 1512 00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,280 these things could have been there for 1513 00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:09,200 thousands of years but we didn't have 1514 00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:11,760 planes you know we weren't in the skies 1515 00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:13,440 that's right yeah 1516 00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:15,920 um and you know you do hear the stories 1517 00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,319 a lot when people do you know see those 1518 00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:20,720 things they mentioned falling stars or 1519 00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:22,480 it just looked like a big star or 1520 00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:24,160 whatever but 1521 00:52:27,990 --> 00:52:26,240 when you're up there 1522 00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:28,000 yeah everybody just basically couches 1523 00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:29,359 things in their own terminology and the 1524 00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:30,800 things they're familiar with don't they 1525 00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,800 so back in medieval times people would 1526 00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:34,640 just call them comments they would 1527 00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:35,839 have them you know they would just be 1528 00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:38,480 celestial objects to them um albeit like 1529 00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,160 strange ones but that's that's how they 1530 00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:41,599 would call it and then of course you 1531 00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,640 know the things i was talking about 1532 00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:44,319 before about mystery aircraft you know 1533 00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:46,880 rockets and jets that was a terminology 1534 00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:48,720 that they were they were aware of that 1535 00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:50,800 they were comfortable using and also 1536 00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:52,000 that was things that other people would 1537 00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,839 understand so naturally those are the 1538 00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:55,680 phrases that people are going to use to 1539 00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:57,280 describe them and then of course you get 1540 00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:58,960 a bit further in time and then that you 1541 00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,559 know the guy came up with a phrase well 1542 00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:02,079 it was actually a reporter came off the 1543 00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:03,520 back of uh 1544 00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:05,280 kenneth arnold's phrase about flying the 1545 00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:07,280 things skipping across like a saucer and 1546 00:53:10,230 --> 00:53:08,720 then of course flying saucers were 1547 00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:10,240 invented then everybody just called them 1548 00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:11,440 flying saucers 1549 00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:13,280 even though a lot of people didn't even 1550 00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:15,119 see a saucer they just saw lights but 1551 00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:16,720 then it would be in the media as a 1552 00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:19,040 saucer that's right yeah and even the 1553 00:53:22,790 --> 00:53:20,800 things that kent arnold saw 1554 00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:22,800 actually they were heel-shaped there 1555 00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:24,319 weren't saucer shapes there weren't disc 1556 00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:26,319 chips they weren't crescent-shaped uh if 1557 00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,760 i remember rightly 1558 00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:30,000 he said that the first one yeah the 1559 00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:31,920 first one in the in the list of was it 1560 00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:34,640 nine was crescent-shaped but the others 1561 00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:37,119 were heel-shaped so 1562 00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:39,440 what was going on there you know but the 1563 00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,040 reporter twisted the words and that's 1564 00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:43,200 where the the phrase comes from but then 1565 00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:44,559 of course there's different we have we 1566 00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,040 call things tic tacs now you know for 1567 00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:49,280 different reasons so yeah the technology 1568 00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:51,119 changes yeah exactly they were called 1569 00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:53,040 cigar well when i first started reading 1570 00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:54,800 about objects in the 70s they were 1571 00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:57,119 called cigar shape objects you got that 1572 00:54:01,910 --> 00:54:00,319 a lot in the literature so yeah the the 1573 00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,920 names do change 1574 00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,079 yeah that's that's interesting yeah i 1575 00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:06,079 see a lot of falling stars right now 1576 00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:07,520 like it looked like a falling star 1577 00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:09,599 except a lot brighter yeah and then you 1578 00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,559 get cigar shapes and triangles yeah um 1579 00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:14,960 so it yeah it's pretty interesting and i 1580 00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,800 wonder you know at any point if it's 1581 00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,240 you know the 1582 00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:22,319 perception of the person who's looking 1583 00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,520 at it and 1584 00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:25,359 you know some sort of subconscious 1585 00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:27,839 projection of what works for them you 1586 00:54:31,829 --> 00:54:29,839 know it's interesting 1587 00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:31,839 um but you haven't written this whole 1588 00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,800 book right and you looked at 1589 00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:37,359 pretty much everything that you could 1590 00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:38,640 um 1591 00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:40,880 without passing out 1592 00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:42,559 you know um 1593 00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:46,799 let's say let's put you in 1944 1594 00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,000 right you're starting to get these 1595 00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,640 reports and you're in charge of of the 1596 00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:52,720 whole british army or whatever 1597 00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:53,440 or 1598 00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,480 you know 1599 00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:56,079 and it's up to you they they bring you 1600 00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,240 all these reports and they're scared 1601 00:55:01,670 --> 00:55:00,960 um but what would you tell them 1602 00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,680 well 1603 00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:03,680 so if i if i'm in charge of some kind of 1604 00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:05,839 analysis unit or i'm in charge of like 1605 00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:09,359 policy for the royal air force in 1944 1606 00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:11,839 those things would still be to me 1607 00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:14,240 manifestations of a german secret weapon 1608 00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,160 something that we weren't aware of but 1609 00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:18,240 something that was quite threatening 1610 00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:20,000 yeah i'll be they weren't caught they 1611 00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,760 weren't carrying any kind of hostile 1612 00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:23,520 intent but it was still you know 1613 00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:24,880 debatable as to whether they would or 1614 00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:26,559 not and it could have just been that 1615 00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:28,160 they weren't being trialed 1616 00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,520 so you'd want to sit you want to find 1617 00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:32,000 out more but what did you have to go on 1618 00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:34,160 you only had the pilot's testimony you 1619 00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:36,400 had no other evidence 1620 00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,240 so just be a case of well we'll have to 1621 00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:40,400 you know amass more information more 1622 00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:42,160 pile testimony and if one falls in our 1623 00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:44,240 laps somehow you know like because 1624 00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:46,000 german aircraft did actually you know 1625 00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:48,240 sort of crash and and were found by the 1626 00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,240 eyes and a few even defected to britain 1627 00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,640 so we had physical evidence whereas 1628 00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,559 these things they didn't so therefore 1629 00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:56,160 you know if i was in charge you'd be 1630 00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:58,160 looking for trying to get physical 1631 00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,480 evidence whether it be photographs or 1632 00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:02,400 actual craft you know or something that 1633 00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:03,680 determined what these things were 1634 00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:06,160 wreckage whatever but nothing came along 1635 00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:08,079 so the people everybody who looked at it 1636 00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:09,839 was presumably in the dark 1637 00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:11,599 and didn't have a clue but they would 1638 00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:13,040 still think in the back of their minds 1639 00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,640 that these were german super weapons 1640 00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,559 they had no other frame of reference 1641 00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:18,480 whatsoever that would have had to make 1642 00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:20,640 them even more afraid especially because 1643 00:56:25,510 --> 00:56:23,200 of the importance of the war that they 1644 00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:25,520 were fighting in the back of their head 1645 00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:26,720 they think they're winning or they're 1646 00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:28,880 doing well but oh yeah but there's this 1647 00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:31,760 so we gotta the od 1648 00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:33,440 the only thing yeah the only thing that 1649 00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:35,680 i think that might have stopped them 1650 00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,079 doing too much about it would be that 1651 00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:40,799 there was no kind of you know hostile 1652 00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:41,839 action 1653 00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:43,920 initiated by them and the fact that they 1654 00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:45,760 weren't actually knocking down aircraft 1655 00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:47,520 as far as were aware 1656 00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:48,720 because obviously if you go if you if 1657 00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:50,160 you're if you're killed because of one 1658 00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:51,520 of these things you see down you're not 1659 00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:52,720 going to be able to tell tales about it 1660 00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:54,079 are you but let's say for instance you 1661 00:56:57,670 --> 00:56:55,760 know it's probably 1662 00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,680 probably true to say that they weren't 1663 00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:59,520 um you know sort of committing hostile 1664 00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,960 acts 1665 00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:02,400 it's probably the fact that they didn't 1666 00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:04,240 spend too much time because of that case 1667 00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,280 and therefore they would devote 1668 00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:07,119 resources to things that were posing a 1669 00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,880 real and present threat 1670 00:57:12,069 --> 00:57:10,559 so i think that's possibly the reason 1671 00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,079 why there wasn't too much done about it 1672 00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:13,839 at the time yeah that they they looked 1673 00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,640 at it 1674 00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,960 they couldn't understand it but they 1675 00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:19,119 probably just told themselves it's not 1676 00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:21,760 doing any harm yeah just leave them 1677 00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:24,640 until some time as they do pose a proper 1678 00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:26,559 proper threat and then we'll we'll do 1679 00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:28,559 something about it then you start to get 1680 00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:31,520 into the slide 9 aspect if there is some 1681 00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:33,359 sort of psychic connection did this 1682 00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:36,079 thing guide actions up in the sky to 1683 00:57:39,910 --> 00:57:37,920 keep people safe or 1684 00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:39,920 you know whatever it's pretty 1685 00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,400 interesting yeah to think about 1686 00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:44,000 um let me 1687 00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,839 you want to take some questions if 1688 00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:48,160 anybody please yeah um how about you 1689 00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:51,280 awesome if any guys in the chat have a 1690 00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:54,079 question for mr graham randell in the 1691 00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:56,480 foo fighters um 1692 00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:57,760 let's have it 1693 00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:00,079 um try to stump him i don't think i mean 1694 00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:03,520 there's no way i could stop this guy so 1695 00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,440 i've just noticed a comment by uh robert 1696 00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:07,200 coefford then he mentions about did we 1697 00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:08,880 talk about or did talk about dr 1698 00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:11,359 robertson or the robertson committee 1699 00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:12,960 um there was a 1700 00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:15,119 a there might be reference to him as 1701 00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:17,680 well um in the book so 1702 00:58:20,829 --> 00:58:19,920 um 1703 00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:20,839 okay 1704 00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:22,960 so you have to read the book 1705 00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:25,040 that's a maybe possibly yeah 1706 00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:26,319 the robertson 1707 00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:28,240 yeah there is there is mention of the 1708 00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,160 foo fighters in uh the document that 1709 00:58:34,549 --> 00:58:32,960 they came out with in 53 and that's 1710 00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:34,559 mentioned in the back of the book where 1711 00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:36,319 i talk about the kind of post-war 1712 00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:38,400 investigations into the foo fighters 1713 00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:41,680 because say they weren't mentioned 1714 00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:43,440 hopefully i'm not blowing it but is that 1715 00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,319 uh these things are seen in korea 1716 00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,880 uh no no just mention that 1717 00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:50,640 all 1718 00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:52,559 no yeah i found a document on our side 1719 00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,720 of the the pond here where it was just 1720 00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:56,880 real quick in there yeah well the 1721 00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,799 robinson panel was um was it was 1722 00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:00,480 actually was um sort of instigated by 1723 00:59:04,309 --> 00:59:03,119 the cia to investigate what was going on 1724 00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:04,319 and he came out with a multi-page 1725 00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,640 document always panel did uh talking 1726 00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:08,319 about you know the possible kind of 1727 00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:10,400 reasons for why people were seeing ufos 1728 00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:12,079 and buried in the middle of the document 1729 00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:14,880 is a paragraph about foo fighters 1730 00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:16,880 yeah um 1731 00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:18,720 so so 1732 00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:21,040 with all this um 1733 00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:23,359 with all this done you know oh we have a 1734 00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:25,040 question awesome 1735 00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:26,720 whoa 1736 00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,359 yeah guys ask some questions here you're 1737 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:31,520 not gonna get them uh talking about this 1738 00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:32,730 again probably on this show 1739 00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,520 [Laughter] 1740 00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,200 i just ordered your book sorry if this 1741 00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:39,119 is covered were there any tic tac foo 1742 00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,760 fighters uh what were the shapes like 1743 00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,440 so first of all megan thank you very 1744 00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,440 much for ordering the book um 1745 00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:47,280 i appreciate that i hope you enjoy 1746 00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:48,480 reading it 1747 00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:49,359 so 1748 00:59:52,549 --> 00:59:50,880 tic tac shapes 1749 00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:52,559 well if you're talking about cylindrical 1750 00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:54,559 i mean let's put it that way so 1751 01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:57,599 like a kind of white cylinder 1752 01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,240 there were projectiles that could well 1753 01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:02,160 have been termed like that 1754 01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:04,079 there weren't class they weren't said 1755 01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:05,280 you know they didn't say there was there 1756 01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:07,119 were tic tacs and such but if you're 1757 01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:09,440 looking at a kind of a mystery 1758 01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:11,920 kind of projectile shape then yes things 1759 01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:13,359 like that were seen 1760 01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:14,880 there's a whole variety of shapes and 1761 01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:18,160 sizes of various objects you go from um 1762 01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,920 like kind of unidentified light which 1763 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:21,359 they couldn't really determine what size 1764 01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:23,170 of them were through to 1765 01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:24,240 [Music] 1766 01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:26,000 what they called rockets but were 1767 01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:28,480 sometimes kind of like cylindrical shape 1768 01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,319 things that just flew around the sky 1769 01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,640 uh right up to about 200 foot long 1770 01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:34,559 torpedo shaped objects 1771 01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:36,640 so there was a whole you know yeah there 1772 01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:38,160 was yeah shown there was a it was a 1773 01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:41,440 report in november 1942 of an rf crew 1774 01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:44,160 which saw a 200 foot long object over 1775 01:00:48,549 --> 01:00:46,640 northern italy not once but twice during 1776 01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:48,559 the during the course of a raid 1777 01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:49,520 so 1778 01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:52,000 big you know big things small things 1779 01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:53,920 indeterminate size things different 1780 01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,880 shapes 1781 01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,400 and ones that were 1782 01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:58,160 i suppose you could call them tic tac 1783 01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,920 shapes 1784 01:01:02,710 --> 01:01:01,440 but yeah 1785 01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:02,720 you know were they or not or whether 1786 01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:05,359 they say i i guess are you gay are you 1787 01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:06,559 are you getting at the front were they 1788 01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:08,079 the same thing as what what they're 1789 01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,960 seeing now who knows but yeah things 1790 01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:12,480 that might have been could have been 1791 01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:14,400 sort of classed as i suppose tick chuck 1792 01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:16,480 shapes yeah right 1793 01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:19,040 um this is an interesting question i've 1794 01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:20,880 seen this come up on my side of things 1795 01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,960 too um 1796 01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:24,880 yeah uh what do you think of the recent 1797 01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,400 debunking attempt to call the foo 1798 01:01:31,030 --> 01:01:28,720 fighters saint elmo's fire 1799 01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:31,040 so the part this actually cropped up 1800 01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:33,680 when um some of the first press reports 1801 01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:36,240 were appearing in america in the early 1802 01:01:40,390 --> 01:01:38,160 part in 1945 1803 01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:40,400 um and there was various armchair 1804 01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:43,680 experts that the papers had on hand in 1805 01:01:49,190 --> 01:01:46,559 in the states that said you know oh 1806 01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:49,200 that just it is just silly almost fire 1807 01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:50,720 that the pilots are seeing and then 1808 01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,240 they're not aware of it now that 1809 01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:54,720 actually angered the pilots especially 1810 01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:56,319 the pilots of the 415th nightfire 1811 01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:58,160 squadron because they turned around and 1812 01:02:01,430 --> 01:01:59,760 said these guys don't know what they're 1813 01:02:03,109 --> 01:02:01,440 talking about they're saying we're 1814 01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:03,119 seeing something that we already know 1815 01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:04,880 what it looks like because they were 1816 01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:06,880 aware of some elmo's fire they'd already 1817 01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,480 seen that kind of thing before that was 1818 01:02:12,549 --> 01:02:10,640 a common phenomenon in world war ii you 1819 01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,559 know that kind of dancing kind of light 1820 01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:14,480 that that would appear like on the wings 1821 01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:16,000 and sometimes other parallel blades of 1822 01:02:19,829 --> 01:02:18,319 aircraft was a known phenomenon they 1823 01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:19,839 couldn't understand that nephi what it 1824 01:02:23,029 --> 01:02:21,119 was at the time 1825 01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:23,039 some of the pilots saw it didn't exactly 1826 01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:24,880 know what it entailed but they knew it 1827 01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:26,720 when they saw it these things were 1828 01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:29,119 totally different so now most fire 1829 01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:31,920 didn't follow aircraft it usually sort 1830 01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:34,079 of like it was you know it was it came 1831 01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:37,359 off aerials of appendages on aircraft on 1832 01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,839 ships as well um that's where that's how 1833 01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:41,680 you saw it you didn't see it as 1834 01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:43,039 something that followed the aircraft in 1835 01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:45,119 a distance it's not how synonymous fire 1836 01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:46,079 worked 1837 01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:47,440 but again there was there were 1838 01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:50,240 scientists in after the war who came up 1839 01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:52,079 with that explanation as well as part of 1840 01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:54,559 official explanations into ufos in 1841 01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:56,160 general but applied it to the foo 1842 01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:57,280 fighters 1843 01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:59,760 again that was whole rubbished it was 1844 01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:01,440 just that wasn't what they were looking 1845 01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:03,200 at what's in dc the temperature 1846 01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:06,640 inversion thing too um 1847 01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:08,240 you know you would talk to the radar 1848 01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:09,839 operators they would talk to the radar 1849 01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:11,119 operators 1850 01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:13,200 and they were familiar with what 1851 01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:15,280 temperature inversions looked like on 1852 01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:17,920 their on their screens yeah 1853 01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:20,480 you know so yeah they were uh kind of 1854 01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:21,680 you're trying to tell people to do their 1855 01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:23,599 job but they already knew um you know 1856 01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,280 and actually the american air crew that 1857 01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:27,039 were you know being told you're just 1858 01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:28,880 seeing silence fire they were quite 1859 01:03:32,789 --> 01:03:31,039 resentful and to the point of where they 1860 01:03:34,549 --> 01:03:32,799 were saying send those people across 1861 01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:34,559 here and we'll take them up at night and 1862 01:03:40,470 --> 01:03:38,400 we'll show them it's not so almost fire 1863 01:03:43,589 --> 01:03:40,480 they were quite annoyed and that still 1864 01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:43,599 happens today this is a good question um 1865 01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,359 the word foo fighters is japanese has 1866 01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:47,200 anyone done a comprehensive history of 1867 01:03:51,990 --> 01:03:50,480 japanese airmen with ufos okay so uh 1868 01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:52,000 another good question 1869 01:03:56,950 --> 01:03:54,160 foo fighters is not japanese 1870 01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,960 um the word the phrase foo fighter comes 1871 01:04:01,750 --> 01:03:59,200 from a crewman from the 415th knight 1872 01:04:04,069 --> 01:04:01,760 fight squadron called donald mayer 1873 01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:04,079 and he coined it from the comic group 1874 01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:06,480 that he was reading in november 1944. 1875 01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:07,359 now 1876 01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:10,400 the phrase did then translate across 1877 01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:12,480 to what was happening in the pacific war 1878 01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:14,240 and the american units there started 1879 01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:16,480 using the phrase to describe some of the 1880 01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:19,119 things they were seeing as 1945 went on 1881 01:04:23,910 --> 01:04:21,359 but it's not a japanese term but it was 1882 01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:23,920 applied there afterwards and in terms of 1883 01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:25,680 a comprehensive history of japanese 1884 01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:27,760 airmen with ufos 1885 01:04:31,750 --> 01:04:29,760 or even just american ones in the 1886 01:04:33,910 --> 01:04:31,760 pacific well there's been a book written 1887 01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:33,920 on the foo fight of strange things 1888 01:04:37,829 --> 01:04:36,480 during world war ii as a as a whole and 1889 01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:37,839 it was called strange company it was 1890 01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:39,839 written in 2007 by a chap called keith 1891 01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:42,480 chester now i've got that book i've read 1892 01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:44,720 it there are some errors in it it's 1893 01:04:49,670 --> 01:04:47,520 quite a few errors in it really um some 1894 01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:49,680 it's written by somebody who i feel had 1895 01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:51,760 an interest in ufos but possibly didn't 1896 01:04:54,470 --> 01:04:53,200 know a huge point about the aircraft he 1897 01:04:55,430 --> 01:04:54,480 was talking about 1898 01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:55,440 it's a 1899 01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:01,440 kind of starting the subject 1900 01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:02,480 but 1901 01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:04,640 i felt that it just had too 1902 01:05:07,270 --> 01:05:06,000 few things that were you know sort of 1903 01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:07,280 wrong with it and i wasn't entire 1904 01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:08,640 therefore i wasn't entirely sure about 1905 01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:11,280 what else might have been incorrect but 1906 01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:13,039 it does have a lot of japanese 1907 01:05:17,589 --> 01:05:15,359 cases from the pacific war in there now 1908 01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:17,599 i am planning to write a follow-up to my 1909 01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:18,480 book 1910 01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:20,480 about the pacific wall 1911 01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:23,680 yeah i've got yeah so i'm in the very 1912 01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:25,760 very early stages of 1913 01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:27,920 doing some research into that and i'll 1914 01:05:31,589 --> 01:05:30,319 be pulling you know the american records 1915 01:05:33,510 --> 01:05:31,599 um 1916 01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:33,520 records they just can't wait to deal 1917 01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:46,150 he worked with you pretty nicely it was 1918 01:05:49,750 --> 01:05:48,079 pretty easy 1919 01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:49,760 in terms of working with i mean they 1920 01:05:53,750 --> 01:05:51,520 were very efficient in finding out what 1921 01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:53,760 i was after but then again i was giving 1922 01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,760 them i wasn't just asking them oh can 1923 01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:58,319 you look for things to do with this you 1924 01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:00,160 know like somebody might do 1925 01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:01,760 i'm sure they get requests like that for 1926 01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:04,480 a whole range of air force subjects i 1927 01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:07,200 had the you know the specific file 1928 01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:09,920 references uh names of the 1929 01:06:13,829 --> 01:06:12,079 the files i needed so you know it was a 1930 01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:13,839 case of them probably just find them and 1931 01:06:17,270 --> 01:06:15,680 send them information so you know 1932 01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:17,280 hopefully that helped them quite a lot 1933 01:06:20,309 --> 01:06:18,960 but i was putting quite a lot of 1934 01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:20,319 requests into them so i hope i didn't 1935 01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:22,480 make their lives too difficult 1936 01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:24,799 uh uh one last question for you for me 1937 01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:26,079 um 1938 01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:27,280 what 1939 01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:31,599 i'm doing 1940 01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:34,319 you know 45 i guess yeah so i can only 1941 01:06:37,990 --> 01:06:36,480 speak for the um for the european ones 1942 01:06:40,390 --> 01:06:38,000 so you're going i mean the war 1943 01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:40,400 officially ended on the 8th of may 1945. 1944 01:06:44,829 --> 01:06:42,400 they were saying things right to the end 1945 01:06:47,349 --> 01:06:44,839 so there is a report from may 1946 01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:47,359 1945 uh but of course as the war was 1947 01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:48,960 sort of tearing off the number of 1948 01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:50,720 reports was tailing off as well but 1949 01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:52,000 that's possibly down the fact that they 1950 01:06:55,829 --> 01:06:54,079 might have been flying as many missions 1951 01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:55,839 because there was less german forces to 1952 01:07:01,270 --> 01:06:58,799 contend with now the reports did go on 1953 01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:01,280 you know into the summer in 1945 because 1954 01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:02,480 obviously 1955 01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:05,280 um you know you and our forces were 1956 01:07:09,990 --> 01:07:07,599 still fighting the japanese uh up until 1957 01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:10,000 you know um end of end of august or 1958 01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:11,039 begin 1959 01:07:17,109 --> 01:07:15,119 mid-august sorry so um there are reports 1960 01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:17,119 that go through the summer but that's 1961 01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,480 when they stop 1962 01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:20,240 and they're stopping called foo fighters 1963 01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:22,240 now i know i've seen a lot of people 1964 01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:24,799 refer to various sightings afterwards as 1965 01:07:28,549 --> 01:07:26,799 foo fighters strictly speaking they're 1966 01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:28,559 not that that's something else you you 1967 01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:30,240 would call them ufos 1968 01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:32,640 the the foo fighter phrase only really 1969 01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:34,079 applies to things that were seen during 1970 01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:35,359 world war two 1971 01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:36,960 and that's that's how i feel it should 1972 01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:38,640 be kept you know things that happened 1973 01:07:41,430 --> 01:07:39,839 afterwards 1974 01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:41,440 should come some different 1975 01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:43,520 yeah well you heard them in so if 1976 01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:44,880 anyone's going to have a word on the 1977 01:07:48,309 --> 01:07:46,400 topic 1978 01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,319 at this point it's you i'm not an 1979 01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:50,240 authority i'm just i'm just it's just a 1980 01:07:54,309 --> 01:07:52,000 suggestion i wouldn't like to i wouldn't 1981 01:07:57,190 --> 01:07:54,319 like to demand things 1982 01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:57,200 i'll definitely listen to it 1983 01:08:01,349 --> 01:07:58,400 um 1984 01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:01,359 let's see so i'm excited about uh yeah 1985 01:08:05,589 --> 01:08:04,480 is are you gonna include any ufo reports 1986 01:08:07,029 --> 01:08:05,599 in that book 1987 01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:07,039 well yes it's gonna be it's gonna be the 1988 01:08:10,710 --> 01:08:08,640 same as this one but for the jack from 1989 01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:10,720 the kind of pacific war perspective wow 1990 01:08:14,870 --> 01:08:12,880 so that's what it's going to look at um 1991 01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:14,880 and i have heard of reports that go back 1992 01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:17,199 to start as early as 1942 as well in in 1993 01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:19,920 the pacific so it'll it'll go from there 1994 01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:21,839 as far as as far back as i can so it'll 1995 01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:24,480 go back hopefully as far as 9 41 1996 01:08:28,870 --> 01:08:27,440 wow and go forward to 9 45. so i'll see 1997 01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:28,880 how i get on with it i can't promise 1998 01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:30,719 exactly when it'll come out um or how 1999 01:08:33,510 --> 01:08:31,839 long it will be 2000 01:08:34,709 --> 01:08:33,520 yeah 2001 01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:34,719 we'll see 2002 01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:37,199 um any reports of these things coming 2003 01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:39,359 out of the water 2004 01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:41,600 well there is i mean it's not an 2005 01:08:45,269 --> 01:08:42,960 airborne report but it's certainly a 2006 01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:45,279 naval report there was a report about 2007 01:08:51,110 --> 01:08:48,719 one being seen off alaska i think uh i'm 2008 01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:51,120 i'm i'm pretty hazy on the pacific stuff 2009 01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:53,920 so don't quote me but i'm sure that i'm 2010 01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:56,319 sure there's a ship report 2011 01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:58,080 from either either a destroyer or some 2012 01:09:02,309 --> 01:09:00,000 kind of kind of vessel um somewhere off 2013 01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:02,319 alaska in in the war time where they saw 2014 01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:03,679 something coming out of the water but i 2015 01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:06,010 might not be entirely hoping 2016 01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:07,520 [Laughter] 2017 01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:09,759 no that's okay that's interesting 2018 01:09:15,829 --> 01:09:14,789 excuse me oh but 2019 01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:15,839 sorry 2020 01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:17,839 yep no that's okay that's okay wrong 2021 01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:19,839 tube wrong 2022 01:09:22,709 --> 01:09:21,920 um okay 2023 01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:22,719 well 2024 01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:25,040 now i think it's time more 2025 01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:26,080 you know 2026 01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,400 i typically well depending i like to 2027 01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:30,080 give people 2028 01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:32,880 uh the floor so to speak at the end what 2029 01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:34,480 and you know to give 2030 01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:36,000 say something whether it be a message 2031 01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:37,920 about your book or a message about ufo 2032 01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:40,080 twitter or whatever you want 2033 01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:42,080 um i want you to take the time to say 2034 01:09:46,829 --> 01:09:45,520 whatever's on your mind and and you know 2035 01:09:48,390 --> 01:09:46,839 it's up to 2036 01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:48,400 you 2037 01:09:50,789 --> 01:09:49,440 so 2038 01:09:52,390 --> 01:09:50,799 that for me yeah 2039 01:09:53,669 --> 01:09:52,400 um 2040 01:09:55,590 --> 01:09:53,679 the book was 2041 01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:55,600 a challenge to write in some respects 2042 01:09:59,189 --> 01:09:57,760 because i didn't want it to be 2043 01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:59,199 just looking at 2044 01:10:01,990 --> 01:10:00,480 the cases that have already been 2045 01:10:03,669 --> 01:10:02,000 published 2046 01:10:05,350 --> 01:10:03,679 um you know there weren't that many of 2047 01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:05,360 them and i wanted to find a whole lot of 2048 01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:06,640 new information 2049 01:10:09,189 --> 01:10:07,679 um 2050 01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:09,199 i hope i've done that 2051 01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:11,120 i hope i've put it in a coherent manner 2052 01:10:15,669 --> 01:10:13,440 that people can not only understand but 2053 01:10:18,070 --> 01:10:15,679 appreciate and appreciate the kind of 2054 01:10:19,350 --> 01:10:18,080 length and the breadth of the cases 2055 01:10:21,510 --> 01:10:19,360 um 2056 01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:21,520 i hope i've also 2057 01:10:24,709 --> 01:10:23,440 sort of said what they weren't 2058 01:10:26,229 --> 01:10:24,719 and that was the main thing it was 2059 01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,239 trying to knock some of the kind of 2060 01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:28,480 weird conspiracies and strange 2061 01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:31,760 explanations on the head um that 2062 01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:33,360 you know there were german jets or there 2063 01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:35,120 were rockets or the flying bombs or 2064 01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:37,760 other kind of presidic items i hope i've 2065 01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:39,120 managed to do that 2066 01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:41,199 i've also looked at the nutty flying 2067 01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:44,159 saucers that go hand in hand with the 2068 01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:45,920 foo fighter experience 2069 01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:48,640 um people talk about these strange you 2070 01:10:52,790 --> 01:10:50,960 know hanabu flying discs and all this 2071 01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:52,800 kind of thing and i don't push much 2072 01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:55,120 stock behind those either and i've tried 2073 01:10:58,950 --> 01:10:56,400 to sort of 2074 01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:58,960 explain why they didn't exist even 2075 01:11:01,910 --> 01:11:00,960 though there's a lot of people who say 2076 01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:01,920 they did 2077 01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:04,320 um so that's a few uh chapters of the 2078 01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:06,320 book taken care of so hopefully that's 2079 01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:09,040 interesting for people as well but 2080 01:11:15,590 --> 01:11:11,280 i just feel that the foo fighters was 2081 01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:15,600 quite a um understated part of ufology 2082 01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,040 and it was certainly 2083 01:11:20,790 --> 01:11:18,960 you know a period of history which i was 2084 01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:20,800 interested in and i felt needed a bit 2085 01:11:26,229 --> 01:11:22,960 more prominence so it's it's had over 2086 01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:26,239 the last you know sort of 60 70 years so 2087 01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:28,320 yeah that's that's why i wrote the book 2088 01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:29,120 um 2089 01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:30,480 sean was saying before where can you get 2090 01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:32,320 it from well it's available through 2091 01:11:37,030 --> 01:11:33,600 amazon only 2092 01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:37,040 and it's available in ebook softback or 2093 01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,880 sean scott there and also now is a 2094 01:11:43,030 --> 01:11:40,960 hardback so there's three different 2095 01:11:44,130 --> 01:11:43,040 formats i should have been patient i 2096 01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:44,140 love the hardbacks 2097 01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:46,560 [Laughter] 2098 01:11:49,669 --> 01:11:48,080 the only thing about the hardback is it 2099 01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:49,679 doesn't have the wraparound cover it 2100 01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:52,400 only has the front cover um it's the way 2101 01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:54,480 that their cover creator on amazon 2102 01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:56,800 doesn't work you can't 2103 01:12:02,070 --> 01:11:59,280 do a wraparound cover on a hardback 2104 01:12:04,390 --> 01:12:02,080 uh but you can on the paperback 2105 01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:04,400 it's just an excuse now i have two 2106 01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:06,239 people i have two people to thank for 2107 01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:09,360 the cover yeah so they are dan zetastrom 2108 01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:12,000 who you might know is the signal 2109 01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:14,400 and olaf ruckner from sweden 2110 01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:16,320 they are the people who are responsible 2111 01:12:20,070 --> 01:12:17,520 for that cover 2112 01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:20,080 and it is amazing 2113 01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,880 they spent a lot of time 2114 01:12:26,709 --> 01:12:24,800 getting that cover done 2115 01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:26,719 it's a bit how cool how cool is that how 2116 01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:28,800 cool is that covertron 2117 01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,640 i love it 2118 01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:32,239 i absolutely want to rip it off and 2119 01:12:34,830 --> 01:12:33,360 frame it 2120 01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:34,840 well funnily enough 2121 01:12:38,550 --> 01:12:36,640 um through dan's red bubble site you can 2122 01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:38,560 actually order a print of it 2123 01:12:41,669 --> 01:12:40,000 oh well 2124 01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,679 you can order a poster of it it's 2125 01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:42,880 awesome it's good 2126 01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:44,960 yeah do you sign books 2127 01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:46,880 i do i'm doing some this weekend um 2128 01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:48,880 there's a mini convention here in 2129 01:12:54,790 --> 01:12:51,280 preston in the uk and i'm going to that 2130 01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,800 along with andy from that ufo podcast so 2131 01:12:58,070 --> 01:12:56,640 wow that's awesome yeah the two of us 2132 01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:58,080 are going down because we don't live 2133 01:13:01,750 --> 01:12:59,440 very far apart from each other here in 2134 01:13:04,229 --> 01:13:01,760 northumberland so um 2135 01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:04,239 we're going down and i'm taking a small 2136 01:13:07,990 --> 01:13:06,320 stock of books along to sign for people 2137 01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:08,000 but i've had a few other people come to 2138 01:13:12,149 --> 01:13:09,520 me and said you know if i if i buy a 2139 01:13:13,510 --> 01:13:12,159 copy of him directly can i get it signed 2140 01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:13,520 and yeah that's no problem i've done 2141 01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:15,600 that a few times for people 2142 01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:17,360 all right well i'll let you get out of 2143 01:13:21,669 --> 01:13:19,440 here do you mind if i actually did read 2144 01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:21,679 the forward after i let you go 2145 01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:24,719 of course not okay just making sure so i 2146 01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:26,640 won't read it and make you listen to it 2147 01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:27,770 because you already know so 2148 01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,560 [Laughter] 2149 01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:32,800 all right sounds good well i appreciate 2150 01:13:37,830 --> 01:13:35,840 your time graeme i i really do and 2151 01:13:39,830 --> 01:13:37,840 you know i can't wait to 2152 01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:39,840 talk about this with the book club 2153 01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:41,760 um good because 2154 01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:43,679 you know i'm i'm really excited that 2155 01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:44,800 people are 2156 01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:46,880 getting more into the history of this 2157 01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:48,560 because i feel like if we're gonna find 2158 01:13:53,669 --> 01:13:50,719 anything out uh we have to look at this 2159 01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:53,679 whole picture so yeah well the the thing 2160 01:13:56,950 --> 01:13:55,360 i think about the book club um show is 2161 01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:56,960 gonna be that i like to get in depth 2162 01:14:01,270 --> 01:13:59,280 into it as well so yeah that's that's 2163 01:14:02,709 --> 01:14:01,280 where my rest lies and i'm pleased that 2164 01:14:04,390 --> 01:14:02,719 other people are taking that kind of 2165 01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:04,400 interest as well and it shows that 2166 01:14:07,669 --> 01:14:05,679 people are reading it and understanding 2167 01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:07,679 it and appreciating it so yeah that's 2168 01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:08,640 great 2169 01:14:13,270 --> 01:14:11,440 by the way that's uh quantum witch cafes 2170 01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:13,280 youtube channel so you can catch her out 2171 01:14:19,270 --> 01:14:16,480 there which w-y-t-c-h 2172 01:14:21,189 --> 01:14:19,280 all right graeme okay i appreciate you 2173 01:14:25,350 --> 01:14:21,199 thank you sean thanks again take care 2174 01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:27,350 all right that was pretty great so i 2175 01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:29,760 wanted to read this forward uh it's by 2176 01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:31,199 sean cahill 2177 01:14:34,229 --> 01:14:32,640 um 2178 01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:34,239 i picked the wrong page at the start and 2179 01:14:37,750 --> 01:14:35,760 i was already live so i just had to go 2180 01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:37,760 with it you know it's the musician in me 2181 01:14:46,149 --> 01:14:44,070 so i'll read this to you um the forward 2182 01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:46,159 shaun c cahill chief master at arms 2183 01:14:50,790 --> 01:14:48,800 united states navy retired 2184 01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:50,800 when i sat down to read the first draft 2185 01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:53,120 of my friend graeme rendell's 2186 01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:56,719 seminal uh man this guy's too much 2187 01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:58,800 tradition the foo fighter mystery of 2188 01:15:03,110 --> 01:15:00,960 world war ii i thought that i might read 2189 01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:03,120 a gentle summary with a dignified and 2190 01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:04,960 well thought out opinion that aired on 2191 01:15:08,470 --> 01:15:06,400 the side of caution 2192 01:15:10,630 --> 01:15:08,480 what i found instead was a poet speaking 2193 01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:10,640 from within the mind of a world-class 2194 01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:11,920 detective 2195 01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:14,320 with a gift for pros 2196 01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:15,600 prose 2197 01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:18,159 that tantalizes teases shocks and weaves 2198 01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:21,360 graham gr guides you through a herculean 2199 01:15:27,669 --> 01:15:24,239 amount of detail where others passed up 2200 01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:27,679 what they saw as unrelated uh medusa 2201 01:15:31,990 --> 01:15:29,920 graham has found the right brush stroke 2202 01:15:33,669 --> 01:15:32,000 that paints a picture of fear-tear 2203 01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:33,679 gaslighting guesses 2204 01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:36,159 and for some god 2205 01:15:42,390 --> 01:15:38,159 for me personally this book represents a 2206 01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:42,400 retro casual end to part of my story 2207 01:15:45,430 --> 01:15:43,760 my father 2208 01:15:46,990 --> 01:15:45,440 then staff sergeant 2209 01:15:50,310 --> 01:15:47,000 thomas f cahill 2210 01:15:53,910 --> 01:15:50,320 usaaf served in world war ii as a gunner 2211 01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:53,920 and radio operator on a b-17 bomber 2212 01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:55,840 as the father of eight children you 2213 01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:57,679 might think his war stories were 2214 01:16:02,950 --> 01:16:00,560 legendary amongst a proud family 2215 01:16:04,709 --> 01:16:02,960 but they were wholly untold 2216 01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,719 quiet and secretive about his time in 2217 01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:06,719 the service the only story my family 2218 01:16:10,709 --> 01:16:08,560 shared with me of note was that my 2219 01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:10,719 mother had mistakenly put his foot 2220 01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:12,880 locker up from the service out with the 2221 01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:14,640 trash by mistake 2222 01:16:20,070 --> 01:16:17,360 which had greatly angered dear old 2223 01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:20,080 whatever memorabilia was inside we'll 2224 01:16:23,510 --> 01:16:21,920 never know 2225 01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:23,520 during my tweens and early teens my 2226 01:16:27,669 --> 01:16:25,280 father and i lived alone 2227 01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:27,679 together in florida in a small community 2228 01:16:32,070 --> 01:16:29,679 made mostly of golfers and pratt and 2229 01:16:33,830 --> 01:16:32,080 whitney engineers 2230 01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:33,840 my walls were covered with huge glossy 2231 01:16:38,950 --> 01:16:36,800 posters of sr-71s and f-14s advertising 2232 01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,960 their pnw engines 2233 01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:40,800 i was fascinated with aerospace and 2234 01:16:45,030 --> 01:16:43,120 military history when i began building 2235 01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:45,040 world war ii airplane models my father 2236 01:16:48,470 --> 01:16:46,560 opened up to me 2237 01:16:51,270 --> 01:16:48,480 after i built the model 2238 01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:51,280 of the stuka 2239 01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:53,040 uh there was an album full of photos 2240 01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:55,760 showing it and often out of uniform 2241 01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:57,840 always smiling men who seem to be 2242 01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:02,950 i'm gonna leave it there because i don't 2243 01:17:06,070 --> 01:17:04,880 want to ruin it all you gotta buy the 2244 01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:06,080 book 2245 01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:07,920 to get the rest 2246 01:17:13,430 --> 01:17:09,600 um 2247 01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:14,709 those are two great guys putting 2248 01:17:25,189 --> 01:17:22,709 what helps this community and people 2249 01:17:27,830 --> 01:17:25,199 that do invest their time and patience 2250 01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:27,840 into putting this stuff together 2251 01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:28,840 is 2252 01:17:34,229 --> 01:17:31,840 support you know 2253 01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,239 buying the book reading it 2254 01:17:39,590 --> 01:17:36,000 but i'm sure i don't want to speak for 2255 01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:41,830 he wants you to read it more so than buy 2256 01:17:45,510 --> 01:17:44,400 it 2257 01:17:46,790 --> 01:17:45,520 so 2258 01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:46,800 all right 2259 01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:52,070 no i can't get some 2260 01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:57,910 so i can't i'm sorry spaghetti but i 2261 01:18:00,950 --> 01:17:59,520 have to go 2262 01:18:02,070 --> 01:18:00,960 and do that 2263 01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:02,080 um 2264 01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:03,520 so 2265 01:18:08,709 --> 01:18:06,400 or my wife would get pretty mad 2266 01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:08,719 i know you do buddy i can't right now 2267 01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:09,520 though 2268 01:18:13,189 --> 01:18:10,800 um 2269 01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:13,199 so with that being said 2270 01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:14,800 you guys have a great day please join me 2271 01:18:18,790 --> 01:18:17,760 tomorrow with the experiencer group 2272 01:18:21,350 --> 01:18:18,800 um 2273 01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:21,360 that is going to be fantastic 2274 01:18:25,830 --> 01:18:22,960 some really great people there and some 2275 01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:25,840 really great uh 2276 01:18:31,189 --> 01:18:28,000 think aspects of this whole thing uh 2277 01:18:35,110 --> 01:18:32,630 experience 2278 01:18:36,790 --> 01:18:35,120 nuts and bolts 2279 01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:36,800 you know we're all just people and we're 2280 01:18:41,510 --> 01:18:37,920 all human 2281 01:18:44,390 --> 01:18:41,520 we just got to love each other so 2282 01:18:49,790 --> 01:18:44,400 all right with that being said 2283 01:19:06,390 --> 01:18:55,160 [Applause] 2284 01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:06,400 [Music] 2285 01:19:18,050 --> 01:19:12,100 west 2286 01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:18,060 [Applause]